[Dev1019] Voidwatch Reward System Suggestion

[Ryx]

Let me start off by saying that Voidwatch is an enjoyable change of pace from Abyssea, and I want to see more of it (made harder). It encourages people to bring a wide array of jobs and presents challenging monsters to overcome.

Voidwatch Part I is just the tip of the iceberg, and I sincerely hope that it's a bucket of cold water to prepare us for jumping into a frozen lake in terms of challenge. The current Voidwatch is a step in the right direction, I want it to be even more difficult in the times to come.

However, what I want to say is this: We should be challenged by the difficulty of killing these monsters, not suffering a seemingly random yet binding lewt pool for the individual players. I understand the notion behind this, and I want to applaud you for coming up with a way to ensure that everyone participating gets something out of it. However, I do wish to see a feature implemented that allows a player to place specific items into a group treasure pool.

Don't make it an all or nothing system like abyssea when placing the contents of a gold pyxsis into the pool within abyssea, but rather a piece-specific option. This way, the player has the option of taking it directly for themself, but also the option of giving an item they don't want to a party member that does.

Say for example, I'm fighting Voidwrought. I get the Strendu Ring (M.Acc+2, MAB+4) in my pool. I am a Dragoon, Paladin, and Ranger. Obviously, this item is of no interest to me, but because it is rare/ex, it will not find its way to a proper home. Now say my mage friend gets a Fazheluo Radiant Mail + Strendu Ring in his pool. He's obviously delighted by the ring, but the body is of no use to him.

What I want to see is a system refinement that allows him to take his Strendu Ring directly, but place the Body into a group treasure pool, so that it might go to someone who would make use of it.

Yes, I do see the downside to my proposed adjustment, which would result in players selling Voidwatch gear. Perhaps a requirement where the pool is limited by players who possess the appropriate stratum abyssite (in this example: Jade Stratum Abyssite IV) and consumed a Voidstone in order to be elligble to lot.

I do not want to see Voidwatch made easy like Abyssea, I want it to continue INCREASING in difficulty, but I want the difficulty to be in the monsters, not the reward system.

I apologize if there is already a thread going for this. I tried a search, and didn't find anything.

[Fredjan]

Agreed with this.

I haven't done Voidwatch much myself, but at the same time I can see why they made the system the way it is. At the same time, it seems way too much like Abyssea (exception being the challenge - speaking of challenge, fighting Shinryu without a brew was fun, but hey, that's another thread).

Want drops? Have to proc it and hope it shows up in your chest, instead of it dropping at all (although, sure, this opens the possibility of multiple bodies in 1 fight, perhaps - not saying it'd happen frequently, I'm sure it doesn't occur... much). I'm one of the few that has never been a fan of "proc'ing" the monster for drops, but it's definitely more effective than Treasure Hunter these days, so I suppose it's welcome.

The increased challenge is a step in the right direction (plus the way of making it want more of a variety of jobs which was also a step in the right direction), but I agree entirely with the statement that the challenge shouldn't be getting the armor itself, it should be the monster (and yeah, I'm aware steps have been taken to increase chances of seeing exclusive drops by improving alignment efforts). Once people get a fight down, it's a matter of killing it until drops show up.

Say it'd be like Abyssea's Golden Sturdy Pyxies. We have an option to "Add to spoils", but we'd also be able to take something for ourselves. I'd think that'd be ideal. I doubt people really want stuff they won't use (then again some'd just leech jobs to 90 and use it but that's another subject), so something like that'd probably not only improve the system overall, but give people more motivation to do the event itself.

[Taint2]

Something needs to be fixed. We have been spamming Hahava recently, 30+ kills. My WHM mule has gotten our only Body (wasted) and 1 of 2 Necks (wasted). If they are going to make drops in the 1% range they need to have a better system.

[Fredjan]

Thinking about it more, I'd think it should at least be made like this:

• Treat chests how NMs drop rare/ex items. If someone has the item in question, it shouldn't be able to show up. Rare items can simply be traded between members of the group if need be, so that's fine as it is. I don't see why it isn't this way, other than chests being a lot different from NMs actually dropping items.
• I realize this would be difficult to implement, but while they have went in the direction of making sure everyone gets something, there's minimal use for items someone cannot use (aka: wasted). Perhaps a way to check jobs to determine what the rewards could be? (I realize some may not like that idea. Some may want something for a job they haven't leveled yet, etc.)

[Ryx]

Okay, upon further digging, I came across an older thread on this topic, found here.

Since the voidwatch reward system was set up so that each player could receive their own individual rewards, we have no plans to add a feature that allows you to place the rewards into the treasure pool.

To be a bit more specific, this system is different than the original treasure system so that no matter how many players you have participating in a voidwatch battle, as long as you succeed, you will always be able to receive something as compensation.

Do not get me wrong, Camate, I applaud the notion behind this. But the sheer fact of the matter is that it ends up in terrible application when it comes to rare/ex drops. Each person technically has the potential to get the best / desired drop in their chest at the same time, even in a full alliance, but the sheer drop rate says that even one person obtaining the item they want is VERY unlikely to happen. And it can be very disheatening to envision fighting a difficult monster over and over, trading cells and doing allignment every single time, not seeing a drop, and then to have someone come along and get it on an early try, only for them not to even want it, because their jobs are different from yours. They cannot give it to you, because it is exclusive, and there is no means for them to tell the system "I want someone else to have this."

Consider this:
Even by using the allignment system (including cells), drops are rare, except for key items.
Upper-tier monsters have multiple drops for the treasure pool to select from.
The method for determining which of these shows up in a given player's box is completely random, and independent of their jobs.
The system will not even check if the player HAS a given rare item before placing it into his box. You will not raise your odds of seeing the item you want by holding onto the ones you don't.
The rare/ex gear is often very job-specific in its usefulness.

I want to say again, that it was a good idea behind the system, to ensure that everyone participating got a chance to see rewards from the endevour, but the vast majority of what fills the treasure boxes is nothing more than NPC food. I would personally rather see nothing at all than the dirt cheap crafting materials that often make up my rewards.

Now I'm not suggesting a total overhaul of the entire system, I'm not requesting something entirely different, all I'm asking to see is an option where exclusive items are not bound by the fate the random number generator deals them in regards to who obtains them. Voidwatch is slated to have at least four parts, and we've only seen the first. It saddens me to think that we're liable to end up fighting a war of attrition similar to the initial release of salvage for gear that currently isn't even all that great.

Which leads me to my next point: Don't hold yourselves back in the limitations of gear. I'm sure you often think of AF3 as being this whole "vision of the job" gear that everyone should strive to obtain...but if you refuse to make anything better than that, you're going to find it VERY difficult to release anything players are going to pursue at 99. AF3 was released too early and is FAR too easy to obtain. You NEED to make gear that dedicated players are going to want, even if it means dethroning the empyrean armors. It's fine to make good staple gear, that anyone can obtain with a little bit of work, but make the absolute best hard to obtain, so that not just anyone can obtain it.

Voidwatch is a difficult event, and I want to see it continue down that path. And difficulty should reap rewards. As-is, Abyssea is easy to the point of making skill obsolete, yet results in most of the best gear available at this time. Voidwatch is very difficult, but very few of the drops are actually worthwhile. The grasshopper players do not feel they're missing out by not rising to the challenges, because there's nothing jaw-droppingly amazing in it.

To be fair, we're still 90, and I don't know what the devs have planned for the future of gear. I just don't want to see FFXI at lv99 where the grasshopper players are wearing the same gear that the ants are, when the ants work hard to be the best that they can be, but are held back by a lack of means to improve themselves.

[Taint2]

VW has potential but the rewards system is just aweful. Most of my LS is already losing interest doing 3 a night for the past couple weeks. We all like the idea of the drops but the effort is starting to feel wasted and easily could have been spent finishing a couple more Emps.

5 Necks off Hahava
2 to WHM Mules
2 to the same person
1 to another Member

1 Harness to my mule

Its cool everyone has a chance at drops but there needs to be an add to pool addition. If you want to take the drops go for it. If you want to contribute to the pool that should be an option as well. My LSmate Decimus would have loved to share the second neck he got, why can't he?

[Sparthos]

A point system would have served Voidwatch far better than this current cluttered mess of getting useless gemstones or a rare drop.

Based on how potently your group staggered a mob, the final tally would award everyone with points that then could be used to redeem items off an NPC. In such a system, all participants are rewarded equally and are encouraged to spend the points as they see fit after the event has concluded.

If SE chose, certain items (the glowing armor) could be set at a high number of points to preserve rarity while also promoting the mindset to defeat high tier Voidwatch monsters as they would award more points than lower tier monsters.

Intermediate rewards like randomly augmented equipment could be thrown into selection of items to encourage continued participation.

[Taint2]

A point system would have served Voidwatch far better than this current cluttered mess of getting useless gemstones or a rare drop.

Based on how potently your group staggered a mob, the final tally would award everyone with points that then could be used to redeem items off an NPC. In such a system, all participants are rewarded equally and are encouraged to spend the points as they see fit after the event has concluded.

If SE chose, certain items (the glowing armor) could be set at a high number of points to preserve rarity while also promoting the mindset to defeat high tier Voidwatch monsters as they would award more points than lower tier monsters.

Intermediate rewards like randomly augmented equipment could be thrown into selection of items to encourage continued participation.

Man I was thinking the exact same thing. Atleast with Eingerjar and other events there was always something to work towards.

[Elanabelle]

I have to agree here.
I absolutely love that Voidwatch Battles are more challenging than other recent content. I also think the weakness triggering system to improve rewards is a good development.
However ... the loot distribution system is weak and absolutely needs improvement. I appreciate that S-E would like all participants to receive some rewards from each Voidwatch victory ... but a couple of Bone Chips and a few Logs and Ores is not exactly a reward.
More importantly, as already noted in this thread, there needs to be a way to trade or swap or exchange one's Rare/EX Voidwatch loot, either with an NPC (for credits of some type) or with members of your alliance. The example of the Strendu Ring and Faz. Radiant Mail from Voidwrought is illustrative, although many other examples exist too.
The other day I received a Phineus Gun from Celeano. My RNG is level 11 and my COR is unlocked. I don't know if this gun is even any good for either of those jobs, to be honest. I won't be leveling up RNG or COR just to find out.
If S-E doesn't want to make it so Linkshells can "mercenary" sell these Rare/Ex Voidwatch drops, I understand that. But don't punish everyone because of that.
Please establish an NPC system where the NPC will accept Rare/Ex Voidwatch drops in exchange for "credits". Said "credits" could then be used to purchase other Rare/Ex Voidwatch loot. For example, a Player could trade 3 Strendu Rings to the NPC, and then use the "credits" received to acquire a Faz. Radiant Mail.
That's just one suggestion, but something like this needs to happen.