Suggestions to Improve/Rebalance Vanadiel's Divas

[Camate]

I received some comments from the development team in response to your feedback.

To start out, let’s just go over the job concept a bit more.

Versatile entertainers who can both easily stand up for themselves in a brawl by trotting out sambas and steps to enfeeble their unlucky opponents, as well as stand on the front lines and invigorating their fellow party members with a dance.

We not only want dancers to continue to star as spectacular solo artists, but to enhance their teamwork skills and perform even better in ensemble casts as well.

The meaning behind the above concept is not we want dancers to “go solo!”
Dancer is without a doubt a complex job, but what we mean to say is that we will be making adjustments enabling dancers to fight solo as well as support parties.

Since we will not be adding any party support-type abilities in the September version update, we have seen a lot of feedback asking for it, however, as stated in the below quote, we would really like to hear your feedback on the matter.

Add new modes for dancers. Add dances that give sphere effects.

Since sphere effects are extremely strong and completely negate the opposite enfeebling effect, we won’t be implementing the sphere effect itself. However, we are planning to add something that gives your party members some kind of effect while continuing to consume your TP. As we are not at the stage where can give info on specific effects, we would love to hear your ideas.

Now then, in regards to Ternary Flourish.

I can definitely understand your uneasiness about using Ternary Flourish since it is in the Flourish III group, considering how Climatic Flourish goes together very well with Rudra’s Storm and Abyssea areas (specifically talking about Atma here), and also using Striking Flourish with Charis Casaque +1/+2.

However, what if we were to implement a weapon skill that matched this nicely as well as equipment that enhances the stats of Ternary Flourish, just like the other abilities?

We aren’t really at the stage where I can say too much, but we are currently working towards making adjustments to other jobs as well as adding new weapon skills and equipment that make the real power of this effect shine. With this in mind we appreciate your understand and hope to hear feedback on this.

[Mightyg]

I think if the Ternary effect makes keeping steps up well worth the time, tp, and effort, you'll have some happy dancers.

[Byrth]

We aren’t really at the stage where I can say too much, but we are currently working towards making adjustments to other jobs as well as adding new weapon skills and equipment that make the real power of this effect shine. With this in mind we appreciate your understand and hope to hear feedback on this.

Well, I'm somewhat skeptical. To increase the impact of DA/TA, you need to dramatically increase the stat modifier portion of the weaponskill and keep the fTP to an absolute minimum. Some napkin math indicates that you'd need to give somewhere between 200 and 300% stat mods to make a low-fTP dagger weaponskill that's of somewhat average value unstacked. That's three times higher than the highest stat modified weaponskill in the game. Furthermore, you'd have to give it a natural crit rate so that Striking doesn't end up being superior to Ternary.

I mean, here's the problem:
1) All good Dagger weaponskills have high fTP and relatively high mods because Daggers have low base damage.
2) Due to their high fTP, adding a Triple Attack results in a fairly modest increase in damage.
Ex. Rudra's would be increased by about 33% and it's the most affected of all our useful weaponskills.
3) In order to maximize the effect of a TA, you need to minimize the first-hit fTP so that it's not preferable to force it to crit with Climactic.
4) Additional hits always have an fTP of 1, so if you want the weaponskill to be desirable with low total and first-hit fTP, it needs to have very high (200~300%) modifiers.
5) Striking Flourish gives a 50% chance to crit to both swings of the DA when paired with AF3+2 body. 2 swings, 50% chance to crit means 1 forced crit and +1 fTP. Couple it with lower recast/cost and it would be preferable to Ternary unless...
6) You give the weaponskill a native chance to crit.

So basically, unless you toss out a 1-hit, 1fTP, WS with 200~300% attribute modifiers and "Chance of critical hit increases with TP", Ternary won't be viable. If you fulfill all of those conditions, it might be useful for people without Twashtar.

[Purpleeyes]

I still don't see the point in using it. Climactic is just that much better.

[Babekeke]

However, what if we were to implement a weapon skill that matched this nicely as well as equipment that enhances the stats of Ternary Flourish, just like the other abilities?

And then THFs feel compelled to merit Assassin's Charge 5/5 (still with a longer recast than DNC has), assuming you don't make it a DNC only WS, in which case, THF had better get something that compliments SA/TA or the like.

Aside from this, Ternary Flourish doesn't seem to fit into your 'job concept' at all...

Versatile entertainers who can both easily stand up for themselves in a brawl by trotting out sambas and steps to enfeeble their unlucky opponents, as well as stand on the front lines and invigorating their fellow party members with a dance.

We not only want dancers to continue to star as spectacular solo artists, but to enhance their teamwork skills and perform even better in ensemble casts as well.

The closest it comes to is 'spectacular solo artists', yet if a DNC spends 3 FMs on a triple attack, they just lost 48TP from reverse Flourish to make a SC, or moves saved for Violent Flourish, or as said in your own post, Climacrtic Flourish or a buffed Striking Flourish. Both CF and SF are designed for creating a stronger WS, so why implemet yet another instead of something that helps in a party situation?

Maybe implemet this as a buff on the mob instead? After using this JA on the mob, everyone's next hit will be a triple attack, that stacks with WS. This not only HELPS the party, just like your 'job concept', but also makes the whole party think a little... they have to be sharp and on their wits to keep an eye out for the JA being used if they want to stack it with their own WS; They have to be told in advance if they want to get a triple attack after they just used a ws to get a 2nd ws out fast.
It would also make DNC MUCH more wanted in a zerg situation, which they lack a little right now, with a 2 hour that offers nothing in the DD department and it's only real use is an insta-cast curaga.

If anyone disagrees, please be polite about it^^

[Ophannus]

Was thinking that too, a Double Attack "Samba" people who hit get a 25-50% chance to OAT.

[FrankReynolds]

Perhaps if each of the additional hits returned like 15-20 tp per hit thus negating the current waste of tp that it provides. Hmmm... even that seems to weak though. /sigh.

[Leylia]

In my opinion it is simply wrong to add an ability that is "worthless" unless you get a certain piece of gear or a certain Weaponskill, even more so if that content is yet to come. I mean come on, if this "oh so nice flourish" is made so it goes well with something, then that "something" has to be released along with the flourish. It makes no sense whatsoever to release a pointless ability, which later will become useful. It makes as much sense as giving DNC Archery skill now but add no equippable bows at all until much later update.

In addition -as indicated above- I am very much against overly specific abilities, spells or traits only working together with one other thing but are otherwise useless. As a result, nothing Camate said makes me look forward to Ternary flourish any more than I did before (and that is not at all) especially since it is still in the "maybe" stage and if it is not easily to obtain for everybody. Cause justifing junk with future stuff that might even be very hard to obtain is a very, very bad system and logic.

[FrankReynolds]

Maybe they could just replace it with another stance? or make it buff the ones we have.

Ie Ternary Flourish - Makes the next attack a triple attack. Additional effect - removes the block on waltzes while saber dance is up for 1 minute / removes the block on sambas while fan dance is up for 1 minute.

I think that would make it useful, and people would ride it. recast still seems sorta long though.

[Raksha]

Make it a dispel flourish.