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  1. #21
    Player Aurara's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
    Posts
    227
    Character
    Aurara
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 90
    I haven't been to an HNM camp in years.
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player Rayik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    230
    Character
    Rayik
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 95
    "Melee-fodder, Magic-bosses"

    Works for me.
    (0)

  3. #23
    Player Rayik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    230
    Character
    Rayik
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 95
    Unfortunately with the whole Enhancing thing, the more I think about it, it just feels almost like it's too late to really do anything to turn the tide of how the spells were distributed. We can't just get -aga version of buffs; WHM has them, and it's one of SCH's main gimmicks. A slew of new spells just bogs down the casting cycle even more. Composure only benefits the RDM, and is actually detrimental to party members(longer recast timers).

    Maybe SE just needs to wake up and put the Enhancing crown on another job.
    (2)

  4. #24
    Player Greatguardian's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,238
    Contrary to popular forum belief, there is a large population of extremely good Red Mages who prefer the magical aspect of the job. Preferring to play a backline does not equate to being lazy, or bandwagon. Backline Red Mages can, and really should, be extremely active.

    That's what strikes so many Red mages as crazy about the melee aspect. We barely have the MP and the time to keep up with a serious casting role, that there's no way to seriously consider taking away a massive chunk of our Refresh gear (7/tick to 0 is a lot, 1166 MP/Convert assuming maxed Vert merits), the benefit of our Main/Sub slots, and our time/attention that we'd have to devote to WS'ing, Engaging, and running up to new monsters without severely detracting from our casting abilities.

    Many of us don't think that drop in magical ability is anywhere near worth the mediocre melee damage we contribute, nor do we feel that exchanging magical buffs for melee buffs would be worthwhile considering, as pointed out, Red Mage has suffered from a relative lack of growth in their abilities over the past 15 levels. Red Mage still is, and always has been an extremely powerful job. I think the Devs realized that, and tried to tone it down a bit as they raised the level cap. Unfortunately, they seem to have taken that toning a wee bit far. I have little doubt that RDM will swing back up on the way to 99, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rayik View Post
    Good to see you got the link thing figured out. Good lord how old is that pic? Blue letter 75?
    That's the point. He never Abyssea burned RDM, it was 75 before the level cap.
    (5)

  5. #25
    Player Hyrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    392
    I haven't been to an HNM camp in years.
    Take a look at the monsters your fighting and ask yourself two questions:

    Is your Blue Mage, Theif(non tanking) , or Puppetmaster Tping on them?
    Do you have a White Mage, Dancer, or Scholar in the party?
    (In Abyssea there's a third: Have procs been made?)

    If the answer to these questions is yes, then you can Melee, and probably should. The faster the monster dies, the better.
    (1)

  6. #26
    Player Rayik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    230
    Character
    Rayik
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 95
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatguardian View Post
    Contrary to popular forum belief, there is a large population of extremely good Red Mages who prefer the magical aspect of the job. Preferring to play a backline does not equate to being lazy, or bandwagon. Backline Red Mages can, and really should, be extremely active.

    That's what strikes so many Red mages as crazy about the melee aspect. We barely have the MP and the time to keep up with a serious casting role, that there's no way to seriously consider taking away a massive chunk of our Refresh gear (7/tick to 0 is a lot, 1166 MP/Convert assuming maxed Vert merits), the benefit of our Main/Sub slots, and our time/attention that we'd have to devote to WS'ing, Engaging, and running up to new monsters without severely detracting from our casting abilities.


    Many of us don't think that drop in magical ability is anywhere near worth the mediocre melee damage we contribute, nor do we feel that exchanging magical buffs for melee buffs would be worthwhile considering, as pointed out, Red Mage has suffered from a relative lack of growth in their abilities over the past 15 levels. Red Mage still is, and always has been an extremely powerful job. I think the Devs realized that, and tried to tone it down a bit as they raised the level cap. Unfortunately, they seem to have taken that toning a wee bit far. I have little doubt that RDM will swing back up on the way to 99, though.
    I see where you are coming from, and pretty much agree, but the one thing we can all agree on, is RDM is a versatile job. A WAR hits stuff. WHM's heal and buff. BLM's nuke. RDM can do all these things and more, it just really comes down to play style preference. If someone prefers the backline, that's great, but there needs to be more for those of us who prefer the frontline too, since it really is a facet of the job. Not every RDM wants it, the same way not every RDM wants to stand in the back the whole time either. For all it's potential, RDM should not be typecast into a single job role, not melee nor pure-mage.

    EDIT: Basically, there is a time and place for a RDM to be in the back line casting, and a time and place to be up in the front swinging. Neither is optimal 100% of the time. But to completely ignore either of these facets of the job is to ignore what it is to be a RDM in the first place.
    (4)
    Last edited by Rayik; 07-21-2011 at 03:20 AM.

  7. #27
    Player Hyrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    392
    Many of us don't think that drop in magical ability is anywhere near worth the mediocre melee damage we contribute, nor do we feel that exchanging magical buffs for melee buffs would be worthwhile considering, as pointed out, Red Mage has suffered from a relative lack of growth in their abilities over the past 15 levels. Red Mage still is, and always has been an extremely powerful job.
    Two things.

    1) Our magical buffs and our melee buffs do not need to (and in my opinion should not) be separate entities, especially keeping the manifesto in mind. It was infuriating twice over for me to have Scholar be able to AoE our enspells more effectively than we can, with the second insult being haste samba and how even if we could AoE our enspells or bestow them on others, they would be outshined by the most broken stat in the game.

    2) Our 'power' was entirely situational, and mainly due to broken mechanics. True, we could solo just about anything we could bind/gravity. But now that holds true for every job that can, and it took 2 hours.

    But if you're talking frantic spell load, then you're taking the place of a White Mage, or you're lieing to yourself. Because everything we have available to us, we have a specalist for that can do better, with the exception of Refresh(II) Haste(Due to AF3+2 Now) and enfeebles, which have steadily gotten worse over the years due to mob immunities or extremely high resist rates.

    I'd love for your argument about our spell load to be true, but most of it doesn't have to do with what a Red Mage offers themselves, it has to do with us assuming some other job's role. Abyssea really brought this problem to a head in the most glaring fashion it could and it should be addressed.
    (2)

  8. #28
    Player Aurara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    227
    Character
    Aurara
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyrist View Post
    Take a look at the monsters your fighting and ask yourself two questions:

    Is your Blue Mage, Theif(non tanking) , or Puppetmaster Tping on them?
    Do you have a White Mage, Dancer, or Scholar in the party?
    (In Abyssea there's a third: Have procs been made?)

    If the answer to these questions is yes, then you can Melee, and probably should. The faster the monster dies, the better.
    The hilarity of this statement is incredible, you would promote meleeing on stuff like itzpapalotl, Glavoid, Chloris, APADEMAK, Pantokrator, Tunga, Ulhuadshi, and various other bosses where you could be doing something more useful than giving these mobs TP?
    (0)

  9. #29
    Player Greatguardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,238
    The spell load between an active White mage and active Red mage is worlds apart. Red Mage is also the sturdiest job in the game outside Abyssea (where White Mage takes that prize away with infinite MP). It can do a whole lot more than just solo'ing, especially Bind solo'ing.
    (2)

  10. #30
    Player Hyrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    392
    God you're so infuriating. You take the highest assumptions for every statement instead of using common sense.

    itzpapalotl, zone boss.
    Glavoid, zone boss.
    Chloris, AoE Doom, Can be paralyzed, slowed, silenced, blinded and elegied.
    Apademak, Inflicts Weakness
    Pantokrator, ... It's Omega, comon.
    Tunga is usually kite/nuke mob.
    Ulhuadshi... another sandworm mob.

    Perhaps you're not getting it. Melee Fodder, Magic Bosses. Everything you listed with the exception of Trunga and Chloris is HNM/Boss material. They all have AoEs that give even the melee classes reason to pause. That's the drawing line.

    (As a note, I would not TP any of the above on BLU.)
    (5)
    Last edited by Hyrist; 07-21-2011 at 03:43 AM.

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