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  1. #21
    Player Asymptotic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    656
    Character
    Sylow
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Support DNC is basically dead right now, and Square-Enix has the biggest hand in killing it.

    1.) Haste Samba merits almost go wasted now, because with 2 capped marches and Haste, you're getting only a fraction of the attack speed increase from Haste Samba. Let's not even talk about the other sambas...
    2.) Cure VI. Do I really need to say much more about this?
    3.) Status ailments? Lol healing waltz.
    4.) Recast timers. SE has had years to split up waltzes, and they haven't done it. I could end up eating these words, but I think they're more likely to give DNC an instant-KO flourish than they are to split up the main (curing) waltzes. I could see them splitting divine/healing into a separate category, though.
    5.) Weak Steps: while they do stack with other enfeebling effects, steps are pretty weak even at 5/5 and require significantly much more effort to maintain than similar debuffs from other jobs.

    That, and look at what SE has given DNC recently. The set bonus on our AF3 is "Occasional double damage under sambas," not "Augments Waltz" or something like that. There's no waltz potency or waltz recast on our AF3. There's an enhancement to our ability to get a better critical hit rate for ourselves (and everyone, but still). There's an enhancement to our ability to do more damage after skillchains. There's an enhancement to our critical hit damage, and lots of enhancements to our attack speed. Every single stat on our AF3 is a DD stat. The only "support" DNC item that has come out in a long time is Phurba, and well, to be honest, it's not really your best option in most scenarios, because if you're going to play support DNC, you might as well have come another job.

    Look at the job traits we've been given. Conserve TP, which procs only on WS. Skillchain Bonus (More tiers than anyone else). Critical Attack Bonus II. Job abilities too: Climactic Flourish, Striking Flourish -- both tools for dealing more damage.

    At some point, you're going to have to wake up and face the facts: "My playstyle" doesn't mean anything - maybe "my playstyle" is going BLU/WHM and main healing, but a WHM will still blow me out of the water. Square-Enix has ultimate control over the direction of jobs, and they seem to be doing everything they can to give support DNC a hard time.

    I personally suspect that enhancements to the Dancer's ability to support/heal a party have been knocked to the floor by worries that it would overpower DNC solo play. To be honest, if this is truly something they're worried about, they're probably completely founded in this. This is probably why we get no defensive debuffs (slow, dispel, etc.), are forced to bide our time and wait on recast timers, and have trouble removing debuffs. It limits our solo capacity, and unfortunately, it pigeonholes DNC into its only current effective role: stabbing things while speeding up underbuffed parties and keeping ourselves alive so the mages can focus on doing other things.

    It sucks, because support DNC has so much potential. But it really isn't a viable option right now, due to the strengths of other jobs in areas we used to excel at.
    (1)

  2. #22
    Player Bubeeky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    328
    Character
    Bubeeky
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 92
    Quote Originally Posted by Asymptotic View Post
    Support DNC is basically dead right now, and Square-Enix has the biggest hand in killing it.

    1.) Haste Samba merits almost go wasted now, because with 2 capped marches and Haste, you're getting only a fraction of the attack speed increase from Haste Samba. Let's not even talk about the other sambas...
    2.) Cure VI. Do I really need to say much more about this?
    3.) Status ailments? Lol healing waltz.
    4.) Recast timers. SE has had years to split up waltzes, and they haven't done it. I could end up eating these words, but I think they're more likely to give DNC an instant-KO flourish than they are to split up the main (curing) waltzes. I could see them splitting divine/healing into a separate category, though.
    5.) Weak Steps: while they do stack with other enfeebling effects, steps are pretty weak even at 5/5 and require significantly much more effort to maintain than similar debuffs from other jobs.

    That, and look at what SE has given DNC recently. The set bonus on our AF3 is "Occasional double damage under sambas," not "Augments Waltz" or something like that. There's no waltz potency or waltz recast on our AF3. There's an enhancement to our ability to get a better critical hit rate for ourselves (and everyone, but still). There's an enhancement to our ability to do more damage after skillchains. There's an enhancement to our critical hit damage, and lots of enhancements to our attack speed. Every single stat on our AF3 is a DD stat. The only "support" DNC item that has come out in a long time is Phurba, and well, to be honest, it's not really your best option in most scenarios, because if you're going to play support DNC, you might as well have come another job.

    Look at the job traits we've been given. Conserve TP, which procs only on WS. Skillchain Bonus (More tiers than anyone else). Critical Attack Bonus II. Job abilities too: Climactic Flourish, Striking Flourish -- both tools for dealing more damage.

    At some point, you're going to have to wake up and face the facts: "My playstyle" doesn't mean anything - maybe "my playstyle" is going BLU/WHM and main healing, but a WHM will still blow me out of the water. Square-Enix has ultimate control over the direction of jobs, and they seem to be doing everything they can to give support DNC a hard time.

    I personally suspect that enhancements to the Dancer's ability to support/heal a party have been knocked to the floor by worries that it would overpower DNC solo play. To be honest, if this is truly something they're worried about, they're probably completely founded in this. This is probably why we get no defensive debuffs (slow, dispel, etc.), are forced to bide our time and wait on recast timers, and have trouble removing debuffs. It limits our solo capacity, and unfortunately, it pigeonholes DNC into its only current effective role: stabbing things while speeding up underbuffed parties and keeping ourselves alive so the mages can focus on doing other things.

    It sucks, because support DNC has so much potential. But it really isn't a viable option right now, due to the strengths of other jobs in areas we used to excel at.
    I think they are giving us more dd stuff because back at 75, we had issues dealing damage and keeping up with tp because daggers aren't exactly the most powerful of weapons out there....plus, they've already said that they want to enhance our solo spotlight and I think they're doing just that...we have basically an unlimited source of healing with our waltzes if used properly and we have insane eva if built right...we don't need support/defensive help outside of splitting up the waltz timers, we need the dd help so we don't have to waste TP on ws's to cause significant damage.
    (0)
    Love life, dare to dream, and LIVE ON PURPOSE!
    Also make sure to beat up any evil elvaans along the way, as we all know tarus are the ultimate race.

  3. #23
    Player Asymptotic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    656
    Character
    Sylow
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    I don't think that's the case at all.

    You seem to be overlooking that half of the DD stuff they've given DNC has to do with weaponskills. Skillchain bonus, the adjustment to Climactic Flourish, the enhancement to the Casaque +2 and Striking Flourish, these don't point to they're trying to make it so that DNC doesn't need to WS, in fact, they're encouraging it.
    (0)

  4. #24
    Player Bubeeky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    328
    Character
    Bubeeky
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 92
    na, I think they're trying to give us choices, so that we can do both equally well, under the right circumstances....so that we're better equipped to solo, so if we're having to spam waltzes, we can still do decent damage, or if we're able to, we can do great damage with ws's and sc's...like when I low-man stuff with my dnc and I'm not needed for healing per se, so I'm free to /sam and open up all kinds of damage
    (0)
    Love life, dare to dream, and LIVE ON PURPOSE!
    Also make sure to beat up any evil elvaans along the way, as we all know tarus are the ultimate race.

  5. #25
    Player Abithra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    20
    Character
    Abithra
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    The Regain is good for our support role (shame on DDs that need i though, good for mages for procs).

    As for the Triple Attack...rather it be a Trait then a Flourish. If it is (and most likely is) a Flourish then please make it worth it.

    If SE are going to be adding new stuff to DNC I think I would love to get (other then a Dispel of course) is Sensual Dance and Thorned Stance that Lilisette uses but of course with a bit more effect then her one haha.

    I totally agree with making Curing Waltz's seperate timer to Healing/Divine. Not that I use Divine much but being able to Cure and Healing Waltz myself would be very nice (unless it is Paralyze and I always get paralyzed by that ; .

    Suppose I shall have to wait and see.

    (Edited part see the italic part)
    (0)
    Last edited by Abithra; 07-26-2011 at 10:22 PM. Reason: Change of point

  6. #26
    Player Eri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    ドイツ
    Posts
    784
    Character
    Erila
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Abithra View Post
    I am tad worried to be honest about the Regain effect, I would rather keep my TP then give it to, how I play, another one or two melee.
    If you really read the Manfesto, it could also mean a Regain as in like the 'Refresh Spell' so you pay a few tp to give someone Regain..... i mean, if you have problems to build tp then maybe theres another Problem. in most cases however you never get any tp issues as it stands.

    As long as my TP dont continously fall i can give a DD Regain which is a good addition to Party support!
    (0)
    Odin Server

    lv119 DNC ~ 119 SAM ~ 119 More that i dont use.
    Gute Mädchen kommen in den Himmel ! Böse Mädchen kommen überall hin !!

  7. #27
    Player Abithra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    20
    Character
    Abithra
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Eri View Post
    If you really read the Manfesto, it could also mean a Regain as in like the 'Refresh Spell' so you pay a few tp to give someone Regain..... i mean, if you have problems to build tp then maybe theres another Problem. in most cases however you never get any tp issues as it stands.

    As long as my TP dont continously fall i can give a DD Regain which is a good addition to Party support!
    Haha where did I say I have trouble building TP? Silly person, silly!

    Nah just find it a useless use of resources. Probs what I should have said.
    (0)

  8. #28
    Player Abithra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    20
    Character
    Abithra
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Sorry for double post but I had read it thank you very much.

    It says
    Introducing an ability that consumes TP to imbue party members with the Regain effect.
    I would like you to read that and see the word consumes...If it is you use 10 TP and they gain for example 50 TP then excellent. However it could also be you lose X TP and they gain X TP over time and it could be a Samba that shares timer (ala Presto did with Steps).

    I am probably thinking too much into it so am really hoping SE will prove me wrong :3

    Thinking about it there is a use for mages and mobs you don't want to TP on but need to proc blue/red. Good for the old zergs too.
    (0)
    Last edited by Abithra; 07-26-2011 at 10:32 PM.

  9. #29
    Player Bubeeky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    328
    Character
    Bubeeky
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 92
    the way I interpreted that is that it's a samba...makes the most sense to me anyway, as we already have HP and MP restoring sambas, so next logical step is a TP regaining samba....I totally welcome such a JA regardless tho, as most of our more useful things have been reduced to subjob level
    (0)
    Love life, dare to dream, and LIVE ON PURPOSE!
    Also make sure to beat up any evil elvaans along the way, as we all know tarus are the ultimate race.

  10. #30
    Player Abithra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    20
    Character
    Abithra
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Yeah I am just thinking too negatively XD

    It is nice for our support role. Wonder what else they have planned for the future.
    (0)

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