Thoughts on the FFXI Job Adjustment Manifesto

[OMEGA_HACK]

Well it doesn't work with Cure5/6 right now because SCH doesn't learn it natively or at subjob levels, if SCH were to learn it, then WHM and any other job that could use Cure 5 would be able to accession it.

[Kasandaro]

bah i was in the midst of editing my previous post. Sorry i know it's big. LOL. Lastly i'd love to see a forbidden gray or red arts. Cause it to remove access to all other spells while gaining access to some endgame power spells. Cause the spells to have dangerous casting costs.

So we're going to unlearn that whole lesson we were taught while we were pursuing our Artifact Armor, about how charming and fluffy the Blood Grimoire is?

To be clear, I'm completely okay with this. But SE occasionally gets this storyline consistency bee in their bonnet...

Well it doesn't work with Cure5/6 right now because SCH doesn't learn it natively or at subjob levels, if SCH were to learn it, then WHM and any other job that could use Cure 5 would be able to accession it.

Uh-huh. Counterargument. Haste has been available from sub for longer than Refresh, yet one's accessionable, while the other's not. Trust me, as a WHM, I'd kill to be able to Curaga-bomb another party at times. But I don't think SCH-access is their deciding factor for accessionability.

[Ahrana]

Honestly, the only reason haste was singled out was because it was just that useful, and I think it was specifically restricted so that whm would have the option of subbing something other then scholar.

Scholar has been able to accession spells that it normally wouldn't have access to. Phallanx, stoneskin, blink, and aquaveil all fall into that category. In addition, reraise is a spell that by description should be able to be accessioned, yet it is not. I actually need to do some testing with some of the new spells and see if sch can accession/manifestation them (reprisal, dread spikes, aspir 2, redmage merit spells, tier 2 enspells). I think a lot of the new spells don't work with accession though.

[Merton9999]

The behavior of non-accessionable spells has always been a fun little exercise in group theory and ven diagrams, one appropriate for SCH

I think the limitation would have been better stated as "if SCH doesn't have access to the spell via main or sub job" then the spell is not compatible with accession. The only exceptions were 6 months of Refresh and Protect V, and 12 months of Shell V, but that's presumably because SCH would get access to them soon. New 50+ spells for other jobs are all incompatible. Currently, the stated restriction applies.

Note, however, this says nothing about spells SCH does have access to. Of course we know there are additional incompatible spells which SCH can use (Haste, Reraise). In other words, spells SCH cannot use are currently a proper subset of the full list of incompatible spells - all inaccessible spells are incompatible, but so are others.

With that in mind, given spells like Haste and Reraise, it is certainly possible that if SCH were to get Cure V, it too could be incompatible if SCH were to get it. And what scares me is that Refresh, Protect and Shell V were allowed before SCH officially got them, but Cure V is not.

I think it's safe to say that no matter what the rule seems to be, SE can do whatever they want based on balance or any other reason.

I'd be seriously ticked if that happened, though. It's a huge letdown to give SCH a job-defining ability and then go around exempting spells from it. Additionally with the way that MV was treated, and the lack of power in storms, animus and adloquium, another limitation like this would be maddening to say the least.

[OuShiroHeart]

I thought I would share with you Sch's future 2hr only spells, from JP side

「ブレイブ」
対象：単体(戦術魔道書で範囲化が可能)
効果：リジェネ＋リゲイン＋ヘイスト(効果値、効果時間は調整中です)
使用Lv：5～(連環計専用魔法)
スキル：強化魔法スキル
Brave
Target: Single (Possible to make area effect)
Effect: Regen+Regain+Haste
Level of use: 5+ 2hr only
Skill: Enhancing magic
「メルトン」
対象：単体(戦術魔道書で範囲化が可能)
効果：ダメージ+スリップダメージ(スリップダメージは、初弾のダメージに依存します)
使用Lv：5～(連環計専用魔法)
スキル：暗黒魔法スキル
Merton?
Target: Single (Possible to make area effect)
Effect: Damage+slip damage (Slip damage depends initial damage)
Level of use: 5+ 2hr only
Skill: Dark magic

So now you can all stop guessing ^^

[Merton9999]

Wow thanks!

Hmmmm, one enhancing and one nuke(?). Well, at least if the nuke is indeed called Merton (maybe more likely Meltdown?) I'd obviously be happy

Brave seems odd for a 2 hour spell, unless it is uber potent of course. Nice to see a dark magic spell, allowing it to AOE. Hopefully it's a nuke type and not just Bio IV.

These could be great or terrible, we'll obviously have to wait for numbers. I'm still not really excited about any new spells being 2 hour only, though. It certainly doesn't help us fill our advertised roles.

[Sasaraixx]

We're in agreement again Merton. (Sadly, メルトン will probably be translated to Meltdown in English. It would have been awesome if you had a spell named after you! It's appeared as Meltdown in almost all FF games and Terra uses it most recently in the Dissidia games.)

They HAVE to be incredibly potent. I could see Brave possibly having potential uses in zerg type fights (will those even be possible with lv99 end game content?) The Regain would have to be very high and the haste effect maybe stacks with normal magical Haste or pushes you past the cap? Otherwise you're basically left with just regain, because a WHM can cover Haste and Regen. And the duration has to be decent as well. We're surely going to use Accession and Perpetuance for the spell, so I'm hopin ga 5 minute duration will be possible. That only leaves 115 minutes to fill with something else useful

Meltdown - I really have no idea. I will entirely have to wait and see on that one.

I will say that I am a bit worried by these details. Perhaps I am just being a bit paranoid, but it seems like the possibility of a stronger Aldoquium and tier II Helix spells just slightly decreased?

[Horadrim]

We're in agreement again Merton. (Sadly, メルトン will probably be translated to Meltdown in English. It would have been awesome if you had a spell named after you! It's appeared as Meltdown in almost all FF games and Terra uses it most recently in the Dissidia games.)

They HAVE to be incredibly potent. I could see Brave possibly having potential uses in zerg type fights (will those even be possible with lv99 end game content?) The Regain would have to be very high and the haste effect maybe stacks with normal magical Haste or pushes you past the cap? Otherwise you're basically left with just regain, because a WHM can cover Haste and Regen. And the duration has to be decent as well. We're surely going to use Accession and Perpetuance for the spell, so I'm hopin ga 5 minute duration will be possible. That only leaves 115 minutes to fill with something else useful

Meltdown - I really have no idea. I will entirely have to wait and see on that one.

I will say that I am a bit worried by these details. Perhaps I am just being a bit paranoid, but it seems like the possibility of a stronger Aldoquium and tier II Helix spells just slightly decreased?

Its probably Meltdown.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Meltdown

Fire Damage + Sap? Sounds like what it does in FFXI.

[Merton9999]

I will say that I am a bit worried by these details. Perhaps I am just being a bit paranoid, but it seems like the possibility of a stronger Aldoquium and tier II Helix spells just slightly decreased?

This is how it struck me too. We've been asking for stronger Adloquium and tier 2 helices. Unless these two spells are ridiculously powerful, I'd feel slapped in the face to get both of those requests fulfilled only as 2 hour spells.

[Merton9999]

We're in agreement again Merton. (Sadly, メルトン will probably be translated to Meltdown in English. It would have been awesome if you had a spell named after you! It's appeared as Meltdown in almost all FF games and Terra uses it most recently in the Dissidia games.)

Yeah I've always kept my screen name Merton as a nod to the original translation from the SNES FFIII (US) I'd love it if they left the English version named Merton!

Its probably Meltdown.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Meltdown

Fire Damage + Sap? Sounds like what it does in FFXI.

My first thought was fire nuke plus fire helix, but it's supposedly Dark magic ...???