[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] NIN

[Frost]

You're right. I was thinking of footwork.

Unfortunately, I don't think it will really satisfy other people's craving for throwing if it just functions like an additional melee attack. And it will still probably have some awful side effect like increased delay or whatever other horror SE can think of.

I'm worried about this too. Like it won't be 'an additional attack' like we know it, i.e. it would be another arm movement in the flurry tossing a star. I'm worried it would be the set of attack rounds then a long pause while my arm is hanging out behind me waiting to throw a "free" star, when I should have just been hitting.

[FrankReynolds]

I'm worried about this too. Like it won't be 'an additional attack' like we know it, i.e. it would be another arm movement in the flurry tossing a star. I'm worried it would be the set of attack rounds then a long pause while my arm is hanging out behind me waiting to throw a "free" star, when I should have just been hitting.

I'm more worried that they will do something stupid like include the delay from the throwing slot into your next attack round every time it goes off. Or make it so that the item only comes from some obscure piece of content that no one will do any more after the first week it's out.

[Glamdring]

I kind of doubt the delay will be incorporated if they are basing it off monk's kick attacks trait. but the likely requirement of a consumable weapon will certainly require SOME deviation, as well as a recycle check to see if it was consumed. however, as described it's an add-on to a melee attack round, and for that delay doesn't seem to factor in, at least it doesn't seem to on kick attacks, double attack or triple attack which sound more like the analogous mechanisms. I always laugh playing thf/dnc dualing daggers and I get that occasional stretch where triple activates like 5 times in a row, because I'm swinging faster than my Monk using 100 fists. too bad its too unreliable to count on it as part of a strat build or thf might get a bit more love.

[FrankReynolds]

I kind of doubt the delay will be incorporated if they are basing it off monk's kick attacks trait. but the likely requirement of a consumable weapon will certainly require SOME deviation, as well as a recycle check to see if it was consumed. however, as described it's an add-on to a melee attack round, and for that delay doesn't seem to factor in, at least it doesn't seem to on kick attacks, double attack or triple attack which sound more like the analogous mechanisms. I always laugh playing thf/dnc dualing daggers and I get that occasional stretch where triple activates like 5 times in a row, because I'm swinging faster than my Monk using 100 fists. too bad its too unreliable to count on it as part of a strat build or thf might get a bit more love.

I agree that the things I described do sound illogical. I'm just trying to imagine how they are going to add free extra attacks that use powerful weapons and increase TP return. I mean I'd love for nin to get a huge boost like that just straight away, but this is SE we're talking about. They are gonna have to nerf something in order to keep the damage exactly the same or worse than it was before otherwise.... Balance yo.

[Grekumah]

This shuriken thing will probably use the base damage of the shuriken equipped, so no special foot armor required... Not to mention shuriken have generally quite high DPS, so that won't be a problem for NIN if this trait works well. I imagine it'll also grant additional TP. I imagine they'll make shuriken that offer bonuses outside of base damage too, like a shuriken with Acc+ or something to accommodate the use of this new ability.

Correct, the job trait will use the base damage of the shuriken you have equipped. Also, we’re planning to make it so this will not activate with other types of throwing weapons such as darts – it has to be shuriken.

Additionally, as you’ve imagined, we’ll be adding shuriken with item levels in the October version update as well. Accuracy-wise, it will rely on your ranged accuracy, but as this might make things a bit difficult to hit, we’re also currently looking into having some type of modifier.

Also, naturally you’ll still be able to use shuriken as a ranged weapon, but if you do use them like this, the shuriken will be consumed as usual.

[Glamdring]

ok, does that mean shuriken will ONLY be consumed if you do a deliberate ranged attack? because that's what it sounds like.

[Karbuncle]

ok, does that mean shuriken will ONLY be consumed if you do a deliberate ranged attack? because that's what it sounds like.

Correct!

Job trait will throw a shuriken randomly on a normal attack round, and will not consume ammo.

Throwing it like you would a ranged attack will consume ammo.

You can get further clarification if you need it but overall this is how it seems.

[FrankReynolds]

Correct, the job trait will use the base damage of the shuriken you have equipped. Also, we’re planning to make it so this will not activate with other types of throwing weapons such as darts – it has to be shuriken.

Additionally, as you’ve imagined, we’ll be adding shuriken with item levels in the October version update as well. Accuracy-wise, it will rely on your ranged accuracy, but as this might make things a bit difficult to hit, we’re also currently looking into having some type of modifier.

Also, naturally you’ll still be able to use shuriken as a ranged weapon, but if you do use them like this, the shuriken will be consumed as usual.

Will you be able to get throwing skillups when it activates? Or will you still have to level throwing through traditional means? Will it affect weapon skills? Will any throwing specific weapon skills be added? Or is this basically just kick attacks with bad accuracy and an iLevel item requirement? What is the base activation rate?

[Zhronne]

The fact that it uses Ranged skill gives me mixed feelings.
On one hand I'm glad they're finally giving a purpose to that skill, but that's the only positive thing I'm afraid.
They mentioned a "secondary modifier"... I hope this is going to be an efficient one. The problem is making so the accuracy of this additional attack can stay within the range of your overall melee accuracy. If you can't do that you'll be forced to use mixed TP setups and strange gear... it's gonna be a bit messy.

Does Sange still consume the shuriken? If it doesn't anymore I think I might remove my Hyoton: San and get 5/5 Sange.

[WoW]

^^I believe it does; 5/5 only affections shadow consumption iirc. Sange was still pretty "meh" outside of abyssea, but more "meh" post ilvl weapons. Sange was a great ranged attack in abyssea prior to that; if you are properly geared for it. I used Koga/Fumas.

Edit: Fumas may rise in price or become more common, unless they introduce some higher tier shurikens.