[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] RNG

[Inafking]

I don't use RNG for anything but a sub for NMs (yes, it's at 50 instead of 1). But I think they've been overlooking something the cheating software is useful for. RNG should be able to judge distance between himself and the target.

[Felren]

I'd like to see cheaper ammo, no more than 10k/stack for the high end ammo (Which would mean it wouldn't be super rare materials, and you could even buy some of the materials from NPC maybe?). Maybe making it a pre 60 woodworking synth would be nice. In the old days a Rng would be able to level woodworking to make their own ammo, and now its synergy...

Also, unrelated to what Rng can do, but maybe next endgame don't leave Rng out in procs like they are in abyssea? The dynamis JA/WS proc system is a good step, but is still biased in the favor of JA spammers. Being left out on abyssea procs + atmas favoring melee DD is most likely the reason you don't see many 90 rng running around. Also you used to pay for Rng ammo because the damage Rng put out was worth it, now in abyssea you can do more damage without paying 40k+ per 99 attacks, so why choose rng.....

[Inafking]

I agree about ammo. But I was afraid to say it because of the "get moar gil n00b" trolls that inevitably follow.

[Catsby]

Even if you have billions of gil you can't buy ammo if it doesn't exist.

[Ryx]

Personally, I'm jumping for joy at these new announcements. They hit the nail on the head in regards to what ranger actually NEEDS. Not to say your ammo concerns are unfounded, but they're really a minor issue in comparison to the job's inherient enmity problems.

Ranger is being rewarded with subtle blow for behaving like a ranger instead of a dual-axes warrior with sidewinder, and the MUCH-needed enmity reduction based on position that they promised us several updates ago.

Ranger's problem has ALWAYS been enmity. It's been the crippling problem since they added the distance equation, is that ranger deals its best damage at range, but doing their best damage pulls hate, the mob chases them, and they're no longer at range to do their best damage. Ranger has no defensive abilities, we can't handle having the mob in our face, trying to kill us. It's why we've subbed ninja since the dawn of time (that, and dual wield for hawker's knives in the early levels). Camoflage adjustments were cute, but they really weren't the kind of 'fix' we needed. It sounds to me like they've finally accepted this, and plan on giving us the passive effect we need it to be.

The subtle blow thing is also a wonderful addition, being that ranger uses the highest delay weapons, where subtle blow has the most effect.

I'll decide what I think about the new ability when I see it, but in the mean time, I am VERY pleased that they've accepted that ranger's problems AREN'T about our damage-dealing potential. I don't want to hear any whining about how we can't keep up with other DDs in abyssea, unless we have Jishnu's Radiance, blah, blah, blah. Abyssea isn't the end of the game, new content will come, such as more voidwatch, where ranger will be useful again.

Speaking of voidwatch, I would like to point out that the !! system isn't as well-understood at this point as abyssea's, but with the new syncronic blitz in effect, I can see ranger being VERY useful. !! gets proc'd, blitz begins, you deal as much damage as you can before the !! wears off and it raises your allignments across the board. Ranger has that controlled ability to do damage, and doesn't have to run in to melee the mob before you can start unloading the damage.

Ontop of that, ranger shines against harder mobs, which abyssea simply does not have. I'll take the Fiat Lux Shadow Lord for example - I saw well-geared two-handed melee damage go all kinds of random in that fight, but generally stayed double-digits. I saw a decently-geared samurai hit him for THREE damage at one point in the fight (was that his normal damage? No, thank Altana. Regular melee hits, if I recall, were in the 60~80 range for most 2-handers). Ranger? I hit him for 90~120 damage (depending on Minuet) every single hit with my E-bow, unless he was changing forms (and gains arrow shield for a few seconds). That was staying outside of all of his AoE attacks, providing shadowbind if things got sticky, even holding him by shadow-tanking on Rng for several minutes (never before had I been so grateful to carry haste gear for shadows on Rng). Mind you: This example was at lv75, during the first week that Asura had Fiat Lux open.

Sum things up tho: I am VERY pleased with the manifesto commentary on ranger, and that the Dev. Team has realized the problems of the job AREN'T about our damage-dealing capabilities, or what we have to offer the party.

Disclaimer: I *AM* a lv90, decently-geared & fully-merited ranger, BUT I don't get to play it very often. Voidwatch will not change this, on the grounds that I'm needed to tank them on paladin (and I enjoy doing so).

Disclaimer #2: Note that the Manifesto uses "Example" adjustments, which is to say that they're not a complete or gauranteed list of what we'll actually get. To SE: I offically APPROVE of your proposed adjustments for ranger, PLEASE don't steal the enmity reduction thing from us AGAIN.

[Spiritreaver]

I like your thinking Ryx

[Catsby]

Sure. We still need more and better ammo.

[Hoshi]

I am happy to see the enmity suggestions but I was kind of hoping for a new damage related ability as we close in on 99. Assuming enmity will no longer be an issue it will be nice to keep up with other DD without concerns of moving the NM but I worry that we'll be outdone by SAM and WAR since they're getting damage related boosts. It will definitely be nice not to have to /drg any more!

[noodles355]

The subtle blow thing is also a wonderful addition, being that ranger uses the highest delay weapons, where subtle blow has the most effect.

You got that the wrong way around. Mob TP is the TP you gain+3 per strike. If you have a very high delay and gain 25TP per shot. Then when you get 100%TP, the mob will have gained 112 TP.
Compare this to a very low delay weapon. If you get 5TP per hit, then when you get 100%TP, the mob will have gained 160TP.

If you have 50% Subtle Blow, then on the high delay 25%TP/hit weapon, the mob would have only gotten 56 less TP, compared to getting 80%TP less with the low delay 5%TP/hit weapon.

Subtle Blow is most important for low delay jobs.

[Ryx]

You got that the wrong way around. Mob TP is the TP you gain+3 per strike. If you have a very high delay and gain 25TP per shot. Then when you get 100%TP, the mob will have gained 112 TP.
Compare this to a very low delay weapon. If you get 5TP per hit, then when you get 100%TP, the mob will have gained 160TP.

If you have 50% Subtle Blow, then on the high delay 25%TP/hit weapon, the mob would have only gotten 56 less TP, compared to getting 80%TP less with the low delay 5%TP/hit weapon.

Subtle Blow is most important for low delay jobs.

I'm aware of all this. And I'll admit that what I said was wrong. Subtle Blow takes off more TP/hit given to the mob on higher delay weapons, which allows us to feed less TP overall to the mob than the lower-delay weapons, especially when paired with the Store TP we have at our disposal to get bows into 5-hit /nin, and 4-hit /sam.

You are correct: Subtle Blow IS more important for the low delay weapons, which is why Ninja, Monk, and Dancer have it naturally, and plenty of gear to enhance them on it: They NEED it. It takes them far more hits, and thus feed more TP, when compared to the higher delay weapons.

The point I do mean to make is that subtle blow lets us feed less TP overall, relative to our TP gain. When you start talking about 5-hits /nin through the use of store TP, one doesn't even have to gear for subtle blow in order to feed less TP to the mob than we gain in the process. Subtle Blow as a passive effect for doing our job properly is a welcome addition, helping us further the gap between our TP gain vs. TP given.

The main thing I want to push is that I APPROVE of the direction SE is showing us for RNG, and want to see it stay on that course. They do pretend to listen to us on these forums, and as such, I don't want everything they hear from rangers to be a post about ammo concerns or how we should have auto-shoot. I may not be thrilled at their "example" adjustments for paladin, for example, but ranger's definately have me jumping for joy, provided SE delivers on them.

To SE:
YES to Subtle Blow for distance.
YES to Enmity- for positioning.
Maybe to the Trick Attack-esque ability.
And add more challenging content. Kick it up a notch in Voidwatch Part II, kthx.

/end discussion.