Screwed again: Proposed THF job adjustments.

[Winrie]

A lot of ppl say the devs don't play the game and thus they suck at giving us good updates. I how ever disagree, they do play the game but they only play the job war. It all makes since seeing as how war gets everything while other jobs suffer, hell sam only got 1 update til this past one (No one counts hamanhoa because its a useless effect). Its most likely gonna be ws acceptable because god forbid they deny war all the damage goodies.

False. You nor anyone else in the game except for SE know what jobs they play, you cannot forge a false fact off air. Secondly warrior has only gotten massive updates since abyssea, anything else before that has been useless job updates with pup ect. and SAM has been the update baby for years until abyssea came along. THF has always been stuck in this position of having nothing going for it except treasure hunter, this to be quite honest should not be a surprise to anyone, nor should this even be a thread. 8 year fact just sending you a reminder.

[Laphine]

8 year fact that we are trying to change? This is why this and other threads exist. Posting in a official forum must have some kind of reverberation. The reason these forums exists is to demolish that wall between the devs and the players after all.

If the players give up, if the players don't voice their disatisfaction. How is it that SE will know anything? how is it that anything is going to change?

[Insaniac]

False. You nor anyone else in the game except for SE know what jobs they play, you cannot forge a false fact off air. Secondly warrior has only gotten massive updates since abyssea, anything else before that has been useless job updates with pup ect. and SAM has been the update baby for years until abyssea came along. THF has always been stuck in this position of having nothing going for it except treasure hunter, this to be quite honest should not be a surprise to anyone, nor should this even be a thread. 8 year fact just sending you a reminder.

Retaliation says hello but this thread is about THF so w/e.

This thread has every reason to exist. Find me a THF main who is happy with what's been done with the job (nothing) since level 75 and I will close it. At 75 cap a good THF could hold their own and put out respectable damage. Enmity caps weren't reached in seconds and a mage pulling hate could cause a wipe. It's a different game now and THF is the same job while every other job in the game has gotten updates to make it better or more specialized at the things it's supposed to do. THF has gotten pure crap and it's specialized abilities are being handed out to other jobs.

[Karbuncle]

Find a THF Main thats happy with the job? That shit can't be done.

Adding a new ability that complements Sneak Attack and Trick Attack.
Raising the chances of successfully executing Steal and Despoil commensurate with Treasure Hunter.
Adding a new ability that intimidates an enemy in proportion to the number of members in the party.

i smell a nerd-rage coming.

This crap is just proof SE's vision for thief sucks. They might as well delete the job now and give TH to someone else, because none of the above will fix or make THF any more desirable in anyway. at all.

The only thing slightly exciting is them doing something to SA and TA, however knowing the level of shit stew we usually get i can assure you it will have something to do with Enmity, meaningless crap considering the Enmity system is this game is retarded and any adjustments they can make to THF in that department are ultimately worthless and futile 1 minute into the fight when everyone worth a damn is capped on Enmity.

At least now we know THF will remain a useless sack of crap in the eyes of the community in every single way outside of Treasure Hunter.

I don't know why their Description of THF didn't just say "Weak useless masters of nothing whos only marketable skill is making more things drop, We plan on adding more useless junk to the job because we think Treasure hunter is enough"

[Urthdigger]

Would drastically raising the enmity cap fix the problem with THF? Just curious as to what people think THF could use.

[Nebo]

Would drastically raising the enmity cap fix the problem with THF? Just curious as to what people think THF could use.

No.

The enmity game is a futile one. No Tank/DD jobs that want a monster's attention have problems gaining and maintaining lots of enmity to keep hate. WHMs have low enmity cures. BLMs have enmity douse and a crap ton of survivability options etc etc.

They would have to retool the way enmity works in this game to make THF enmity manipulation abilities worth anything other than their secondary functions:

Trick Attack deals damage while ignoring evasion. Collaborator allows us to keep enmity in low man tanking situations.

These are their only practical uses. The the dev team seems to have no idea what a THF does or how it is played.

[Karbuncle]

Just curious as to what people think THF could use.

The ability to be more than a TH Whore.

No THF (well, good THF?) Wants to be a TH whore and the guy who sits in the back hitting collaborator every minute. We want a reason to Melee, and we want our melee damage to not suck.

We're not asking to be the Kings of combat holding up to ~95% of a good WAR's damage, Just simply not so weak as we are now.

Right now, as it stands, rather THFs intend to face reality or not, outside of Abyssea, THF is so weak on new content (Read; Voidwatch, and future content to come) that we're almost completely pointless to bring. For Voidwatch we were completely worthless before they updated it to where TH effected lights.

But even thats not really a good enough reason to bring a THF. Outside Abyssea, We're the worst of all Melee DD. We are literally back of the line/bottom-of-thebarrel in Melee DD. Even PUP out-damages a THF. yes, go parse it, They do. Their puppet is part of the job.

All we(I?) Want is to be at least a semi-respectable DD, if i take my time to get a Mandau and the best gear, I should at least be able to do ~75/80% of the Damage a WAR does.


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And to answer your Enmity question, a Rep said it was impossible to "increase" the cap for Enmity (or in fact do anything meaningful to it), But if they did raise the cap, I don't think it'd help much.

I was too harsh in an earlier statement, In Voidwatch its not all about zerging, But as Collab/Accomp can't work across alliances, and the range is still too short, Its a very situational ability. Plus most jobs these days have ways ot keep themselves alive long enough to lose enmity, and WHMs to recover the HP lost during that time.

Enmity control abilities just are not useful when they involve trying to control others. because most players can already do that themselves, and if they get hate, Most of them will be fine thanks to things like PDT sets, MDT sets, etc.

Its not that i hate the THF job completely, I just hate how SE is trying to make us into something that is worthless in a game like FFXI. No one goes "OMG WE NEED A THIEF FOR ENMITY CONTROL", that hasn't happened since 2004 when SATA and first vokers were in style.

Nothing will change that :\

These are their only practical uses. The the dev team seems to have no idea what a THF does or how it is played.

I agree. Its funny, in the gaming industry some of the best advice is learning to take advice, and accept your vision might not always be paramount. You'd think after opening these forums maybe SE would actually see that we dont want to be masters of the Useless art of controlling Enmity, that we want to be an acceptable DD. thats all.

But i think they're sticking with "We know best for THF! Give them more Enmity control! since you know, everyones jumping for joy over collab/accomp.... right?"

That, or the JP THF's are splooging for more Enmity control updates. Anyone wanna read their forums and judge their reaction? I do. Brb.

[Karbuncle]

Also, I read over the ~3 posts in the JP Thread, And i can't make it all out, But they seem to be on the side of "Useless junk, wheres our abilities to do more damage?"

I think one of them was complaining WAR is getting an ability to force a crit (I.E the trademark of SA and TA).

Google translate isn't wonderful but thats the gist of what i got. They werent exactly full-nerd-rage, But they definitely did not seem "Happy" about the idea of the THF update. They're asking for more damage output as well.

So I don't think this is a case of "JP asking for enmity control and NA wanting damage (being ignored", its more of "Everyone is being ignored and they're doing what they want".

Way to make use of the forums?

[Laphine]

Know japanese karb? you should check what their wording on thf update too and give us a heads up^^. I bet it's different (not even google translate helped me there lol). The french and german ones sure were different and gave me some hope.

edit: nvm lol. you googled too^^

[Zirael]

Find a THF Main thats happy with the job? That shit can't be done.



i smell a nerd-rage coming.

This crap is just proof SE's vision for thief sucks. They might as well delete the job now and give TH to someone else, because none of the above will fix or make THF any more desirable in anyway. at all.

The only thing slightly exciting is them doing something to SA and TA, however knowing the level of shit stew we usually get i can assure you it will have something to do with Enmity, meaningless crap considering the Enmity system is this game is retarded and any adjustments they can make to THF in that department are ultimately worthless and futile 1 minute into the fight when everyone worth a damn is capped on Enmity.

At least now we know THF will remain a useless sack of crap in the eyes of the community in every single way outside of Treasure Hunter.

I don't know why their Description of THF didn't just say "Weak useless masters of nothing whos only marketable skill is making more things drop, We plan on adding more useless junk to the job because we think Treasure hunter is enough"

Hmm, just had an idea how to fix Thief:
Job Ability: Treasure Samba (Inflicts the next target you strike with Treasure daze, giving it Treasure Hunter effect and allowing anyone striking the enemy a small chance to raise it's TH level); Dancer, lv.95
Job Ability: Treasure Step (Increases target's chance to be inflicted with higher level of Treasure Hunter. If successful, you will earn two Finishing Moves.); Dancer, lv99

There, I'd take it and live happily ever after.

Seriously, Dancer and even Ranger are to become Thief clones? Why can't Thief become a clone of Warrior, Ninja, Monk or Dancer? Steal/despoil update? The most valuable item we can currently Steal is Lesser Chigoe, Despoil Murex Spicule and some sushi maybe... I'm not looking forward for TH at level 99 to improve chances of doing that. The picture showing Thief farming Gold and Mythril Beastcoins in Beadeaux is very adequate here. I'd rather take Aura Steal, thank you.
Intimidation doesn't sound that bad, but rather, give that to BST, and give THF Blood Rage working in similar way.
No idea what endgame content is coming at 99, but we'll be probably sitting with mages again and running in every 50s to TA the frontliners/tanks? ;(