Ther case for -Prep as related to gear ect

[Heero]

•Vision
Mystics who conjure avatars to fight by their sides, then sit back and enjoy the show while paying close attention to their MP as their minions deliver devastating blows to adversaries and provide aid to allies

We intend to make it easier for avatars to wreak havoc upon enemies, but also emphasize how vital the act of managing the source of their magical powers is to summoners.


•Example Adjustments

•A new ability that expends an additional amount of MP to shorten the recast time for blood pacts.

•Introducing the avatars Cait Sith and Atomos.


I give SE alot of credit because I've been SMN for along time been on FFXI for 7years. I always loved smn since ff7-ffx11 (ff7 note cloud and the gang was basically every job we have now rolled in to one). I really want to speak for the smn's that just enjoyed the role and even though wants those 1,000,000k gears and rare/ex but to broke to get them or can't stay long on long enough to catch a NM. I mentioned that because I gonna get response like get better gear and ect..

To the point :)
I don't like the concept of sacrificing more mp to drop your mp pool down faster. I don't think its how fast you can get your bloodpacts off but instead how effective it is when you do get it off. Sometimes my lower mp pacts does more damage than my lvl 70 pact it's all in mob what boost it got and what element it is.
I don't party much with smn and I don't summon avatar and watch them fight from a distance those make my role boring. I'm a crazy get in any mobs face and pull out my staff and build my tp to start some SC or Spirit taker (not good trade of tp on strong mobs) the way I look at it I'm a summoner I got demigods protecting me with access to every element some key status effects (good/bad) a battle with a mob shouldn't be the same way with every avatar. When ifirit's out I'll adjust my gear to match his type like str but the will make him cost more because to boost those trait I'll have to sacrifice my -perp gear. a lot of people don't like the avatar favor but I do the concept is cool but to lose the effect when you use pact sucks because you have to use pact to keep hate off you but who ever came with it I, I see where they was going with it. make each battle more unique shiva's favor smn/sch sweet garuda's/titan favor with smn/thf each avatar is unique and it makes the smn better for knowing which one can keep him/her alive in certain situation knowing mob weakness (elemental and statues) and how safely get a fresh avatar back in battle with minimal effort would be nice (ex. Shiva is my favorite to solo with she has all the survival bloodpacts to keep me safe, but she can't heal so at some point if I'm fighting multiple mobs (happens often) as soon as she's defeated I'm dead unless I start running in advance :) but yea that's where effectiveness comes in, her bloodpact ward is sleepaga if time right I can put both mob to sleep/relese (dumb but she wakes them right back up less than second later) take couple step away siphon (cause once again I have constant hate spirit will wake mob) and recast any other avatar before they wake takes about 45sec by the time get avatar to get hate back 1min is up can't use that twice even on ice or dark day..) Titan stoneskin before death and recast not all avatars can asure your survival after there dismissed so I would prefer more mob control wards or pacts (ramuh's stun long enough to recast, but only works on one mob if you got two your dead.) 1min goes by fast if you got a imobolized type ward and pact.

I know SE is strong on the party thing but making them a laid back and more kneel time to me sounds like more sleep time behind the comp. if you really want us to sacrifice mp allow more pact third one is better use of that macro slot.

[Sargent]

Quoted from here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post143878 to hopefully prevent further derailment



How long does it take you to run out of MP or are you only just assuming you would? I only get +2 per tick back with Garuda and I can't use up all my MP. I get the guts of 900MP back every 5 minutes from gear refresh, sublimation and elemental siphon after I negate perp cost.

Sorry for the late reply, not looked at the thread till now. When /rdm, I very rarely run out using Vert and Siphon, but at some stages I come close to running out before the second convert timer is up. In this instance, I just conserve MP as much as possible. In the instance where it's feasible to melee, I just slap on Hvergelmir and won't run out of MP full stop, and won't go below 1k MP outside abyssea, even while using Rage every 45 seconds and keeping Hastega up as /WHM.

[Razushu]

Sorry for the late reply, not looked at the thread till now. When /rdm, I very rarely run out using Vert and Siphon, but at some stages I come close to running out before the second convert timer is up. In this instance, I just conserve MP as much as possible. In the instance where it's feasible to melee, I just slap on Hvergelmir and won't run out of MP full stop, and won't go below 1k MP outside abyssea, even while using Rage every 45 seconds and keeping Hastega up as /WHM.

Welcome back. I conserve MP too and I've yet to run out on just /sch. I had to rest for the first time since lvl75 the other night, but I was /WHM as one of the main healers in a 12 man group. I'd probably build a empy weapon, but seeing as I can go indefinitely as is, even in situations where I can melee Spirit Taker would be more than enough.

[Korpg]

I wouldn't even waste the time with an emp staff.

I would rather make TotM -perp staves instead. All 8 of them.

They are more useful in my opinion.

[Razushu]

I wouldn't even waste the time with an emp staff.

I would rather make TotM -perp staves instead. All 8 of them.

They are more useful in my opinion.

Doing that atm, might not build the light one though. How Cait Sith is implemented may change this. I think most are thinking she'll be light based,but they might throw us a curve ball and make her non-elemental.

[Sargent]

Quoted from here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post143878 to hopefully prevent further derailment



How long does it take you to run out of MP or are you only just assuming you would? I only get +2 per tick back with Garuda and I can't use up all my MP. I get the guts of 900MP back every 5 minutes from gear refresh, sublimation and elemental siphon after I negate perp cost.

Depends on what kind of fight you're doing. Last night I was dumb enough to solo pop Verthandi, and whilst duoing it with a WHM, I didn't run out of MP at all, but I wasn't BPing every 45 seconds like I would in a party situation. With my current set, it's +5/tick with Garuda out, and 502 Siphons. In a party situation, managing my own MP, I honestly haven't tried it out fully, but tbh, I can see myself eventually needing to rest 1 or 2 ticks every 15-20 mins or so.

As much as I don't wanna get involved in the pathetic Goli vs. Caller's arguement, I'm just gonna give my input.

Melee, I can see the appeal, Haste etc. Not meleeing? Hell no, it offers nothing for the job whatsoever (unless fulltime MP+ gear is your kinda thing >.>). Kiting,etc, use Caller's. It's true, MP isn't an issue like it once was, but gaining more MP from your Refresh gear instad of using Refresh gear to hit 0/tick Perp cost is obviously better. When meleeing? Debatable, honestly haven't number crunched it, and honestly don't care enough to number crunch it.

[Razushu]

Depends on what kind of fight you're doing. Last night I was dumb enough to solo pop Verthandi, and whilst duoing it with a WHM, I didn't run out of MP at all, but I wasn't BPing every 45 seconds like I would in a party situation. With my current set, it's +5/tick with Garuda out, and 502 Siphons. In a party situation, managing my own MP, I honestly haven't tried it out fully, but tbh, I can see myself eventually needing to rest 1 or 2 ticks every 15-20 mins or so.

As much as I don't wanna get involved in the pathetic Goli vs. Caller's arguement, I'm just gonna give my input.

Melee, I can see the appeal, Haste etc. Not meleeing? Hell no, it offers nothing for the job whatsoever (unless fulltime MP+ gear is your kinda thing >.>). Kiting,etc, use Caller's. It's true, MP isn't an issue like it once was, but gaining more MP from your Refresh gear instad of using Refresh gear to hit 0/tick Perp cost is obviously better. When meleeing? Debatable, honestly haven't number crunched it, and honestly don't care enough to number crunch it.

Last time I needed to rest, i was mainhealing in Dynamis as /WHM whild buffing DDs and raging every 45 secs. Only needed to rest once in the 2hrs though. Getting +2MP per tick back on Avatars is a net gain of 280MP per minute over wearing no -perp/refresh gear at all, before adding siphon etc.

The general consensus is that melee vs. perp/refresh seems to be that either side is pretty much never going to run out of MP unless something goes wrong. I say general consensus, but Dallas will be in here before long spouting the redundant argument that melee means unlimited MP. Even though everyone knows that MP isn't a problem for anyone, he's still convinced he's found the fabled fountain of ether.

[Sargent]

I say general consensus, but Dallas will be in here before long spouting the redundant argument that melee means unlimited MP. Even though everyone knows that MP isn't a problem for anyone, he's still convinced he's found the fabled fountain of ether.

I don't wanna hop on the bandwagon, but with Hver at least, meleeing does more or less guarantee unlimited MP. However, in most situations it's simply not feasible to do so due to TP feed/AoE attacks, and in those instances you use more MP though cures, and that needs to be considered. I respect Dallas' wishes to make Summoner a more active job, and this was highlighted in the Job Adjustments Manifesto with lower BP timers, depending on how it's implimented. However, saying people who use Caller's Body +2 have MP issues is pushing it, having more MP then you need is never a bad thing, running out of MP on the other hand is. Summoner's Body/+1 would, agreed put out more dmage between pacts then Caller's +2, in terms of the period between BPs, Caller's +2 really does only offer perp- (Summoning skill only enhances accuracy during BPs and if your over the skill cap). Still, in my opinion, Caller's +2 still wins out, simply down to the MP management.

[Razushu]

I don't wanna hop on the bandwagon, but with Hver at least, meleeing does more or less guarantee unlimited MP. However, in most situations it's simply not feasible to do so due to TP feed/AoE attacks, and in those instances you use more MP though cures, and that needs to be considered. I respect Dallas' wishes to make Summoner a more active job, and this was highlighted in the Job Adjustments Manifesto with lower BP timers, depending on how it's implimented. However, saying people who use Caller's Body +2 have MP issues is pushing it, having more MP then you need is never a bad thing, running out of MP on the other hand is. Summoner's Body/+1 would, agreed put out more dmage between pacts then Caller's +2, in terms of the period between BPs, Caller's +2 really does only offer perp- (Summoning skill only enhances accuracy during BPs and if your over the skill cap). Still, in my opinion, Caller's +2 still wins out, simply down to the MP management.

There's no need to hop on the bandwagon. In situations where melee can be used myrkr does grant unlimited MP, that however doesn't change the fact that most SMNs nowadays don't run out of MP ever(or extremely rarely). Dallas' point is somehow that his unlimited MP is magically superior to other means of unlimited MP.

Caller's body wins, unless you're using the Caller's bracers +1 with the SMN doublet on matching day. the crit hit will increase DPS, but the Caller's Doublet will give consistent higher damage on BPs.

[Arciel]

I'd say its a bit of an exaggeration to state that it's extremely rare that a SMN could manage to run out of MP outside of Abyssea - its just a matter of how the situation presents itself and whether you're at liberty to use all your tools at your disposal. If say you're doing something like co avatar tanking an NM with avatars, it isn't exactly apt to siphon until the avatar dies, and you might be using say Garuda and BP rage for damage and ward healing every moment you can. It is in non-ideal situations like this that your MP will get strained.. and this can happen rather often, especially in an event like Voidwatch.

In other words, MP is less of an issue with the Empyrean set (and is non existent in abyssea) but can still present itself in less that optimal situations.

Against EPs, Hvergelmir (or the WoE staff) will in fact be the most efficient staff bar none in terms of MP control because of your ability to gain TP to use Myrkr - but even this varies with mobs as some might spam TP reset and so on.

And in such situations it's prudent to adapt a conserve and recover approach, which means to say perp/refresh gear along with the staff of choice, because how much damage you do per swing / in between WS isn't meant to be consequential - doing so also de-necessitates the need to speed up the process.

As for Caller's Body, what Raz said.