[dev1019] When was the last REAL thf update?

[Capn]

The last boost that thf got, was around 2005/6 when we obtained the Assassin job trait. Let that sink in for a bit before you say I'm wrong...

Yes, we've received a number of boosting abilities, some rather important ones. Feint, Aura Steal, Critical Attack bonus being the second nicest, since Assassin...

Is it working as intended that thf has no discerning abilites to seperate itself from other jobs in the game aside from Treasure Hunter?

TH is the last thing in the game thf is needed for. Everything else is dead content.

-Picking locks on coffers and a VERY limited amount of doors.
-Stealing items from monsters, oh wait, that shares a 5 minute timer with aura steal and despoil... 3 abilities, one timer.
-Accomplice and Collaborator are nice sometimes, if they were on seperate timers and 30 seconds and 3 minutes... (also nobody uses hate control SE, stop with the useless hate control abilites...).
-Hide.... doesn't work on anything anymore (how many "track by sight" monsters do you find yourself running away from.... ever...)
-Mug, hell yes 12 gil every 15 minutes! oh wait, abyssea mobs don't have gil.... neither do non abyssea new NMs...

That leaves us with our only 2 JAs that are useful in our entire JA list... Sneak Attack and Trick Attack (and 1 JT Triple attack...). If it wasn't for the fact that the monster we fight spins around and around, making sneak attack frustrating as HELL to land... and Trick Attack being the last useful ability we have that is consistent (when you're not solo...)

Solo thf loses Trick Attack/Conspirator(sans AF3)/Sneak Attack/lolAmbush
So then we're left with.... Feint? TH?

It's really sad that thf has no niche in the game at all. (aside from TH) ...

A+ Evasion, nin gets more (helloooooo Yonnin)
DoT is decent, mnk gets more
Used to be... crit kings... dnc gets more (go go 5/5 Crit Dancing Edge outside of abyssea......)

Ever since Assassin was added:

TP Floor was removed so nin wouldn't gain TP so fast... thf/nin was effected
Distance was added to ranged acc and atk... status bolt thfs were effected
More jobs gain access to DW! Thf gets DW1 at 83..............................


It's just disheartening to see a job that I've played since 2004 and waiting like a stalkholm syndrome abductee... waiting for the day that we get an ability that lets sneak attack work from any angle, or trick attack work in conjunction with another JA like "Shadow" that acts as the person we're standing behind... Or 2 stances where 1 increases crit hit damage/rate, but reduces evasion, and the other increases evasion, but reduces crit hit damage/rate... or triple attack... or SOMETHING that deals damage.


Please! SE...

NO more shared timers with steal
NO more shared timers PERIOD
PLEASE give our outdated JAs that nobody uses anymore a facelift... like mug, or hide, even flee giving some form of +Triple attack% would be nice... JT desperate strikes, when under the effect of flee triple attack% increases (10-15%)?

SOMETHING...

Dnc getting Sneak Attack +1 is the straw that broke the camels back for this job... I continue to play it because I don't have ninja or pld leveled for mass pulling... and some people still think TH makes a difference... But today, I've lost yet another level of love and luster for the job

[Alukat]

well th makes a difference.
and i totally agree with u at all the other points.

[Alukat]

here's an idea that makes sneak attack usable again.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...818#post143818

[Laphine]

although i agree with some of your points, climactic flourish can't crit all hits on DE. Just the first one, like sa/ta. Still, they could in theory combo 5 DEs and crit the first hit on all of them. This is impossible though, due tp gain constraints. I also don't think the boost to the single crit hit with AF3+2 is ever better than the boost SA gives us. I imagine it could be better than TA tho (we hardly increase agi when wsing). Still, they can use the JA every 1.5 min with no limitation at all...and they can probably combo two criting rudras for some more epeen SC....

On the TH thing, i was going to post this at the other thread as reply to some things Insaniac said. I'll post it here to centralize things.

Yes, i agree TH does make a difference when ppl think on what jobs to bring to an event. Like Insaniac said "I have never once heard anyone say OMG WE NEED A DNC!!". But really, just because we have TH doesn't mean the job is working 100% and we should have no overhauling updates. And also, for me, being required only as TH is not fun game play. I wanna have fun! Thf is job i like the most, why can't i have fun as thf?!

We can read fun as damage there. This was always the reality of the game. Hardly anyone liked being a healer, hardly anyone liked being a support only job, hardly anyone liked being the th whore. These jobs were always required to make things work tho, and so ppl leveled them. When asked to be one of them some people would even whine about it. It's understandable, what most players really like/want is seeing f***ing big numbers on the screen!

edit: oh yeah, from what i've been noticing these days, if a person doesn't have thf job, he will just shout for yellow procers and be done with it. It might be that he asks for a tank. Luckily enough, thf fits this. Except i've never seen a shout "tank(can i have it?)", just (ninja) (monk) (can i have it?). If i'm interested i'll just say "i'll tank for you on thief", and then they say "OK". Yeah..lol. But yeah, TH is hardly a requirement on ppls minds anymore.

[Karbuncle]

TH is hardly a requirement on ppls mind

i read what you wrote, and i agree with it.

In fact i just had a rant in the Collab/Accomp range thread a moment ago. I'm fed up with people telling THF "You have TH don't complain". Its the epitome of ignorance and if they'd even look around they could tell TH is even slowly being phased out, hell until just july 11th TH wasn't useful at all for voidwatch. now it gives a small boost to lights.

THF as a job is just kept as a Mediocre job. It is probably on the bottom of the list of "useful" as jobs like SMN. The only reason THF even gets a second though is Treasure Hunter, which more and more people care less about these days.

And if we face reality, TH isn't even that amazing. Random drops are random so to speak. You have GuyA go 1/1 with no TH, then THF-B with TH9+ on the mob and going 0/20. The job trait as a whole is so cynically useless sometimes it almost feels like an elaborate troll by SE.

I don't want to continue to big a rant, if you wanna know the rest find the Collab/accomp thread -.-

[Capn]

Clearly they just want people to stop playing THF.

Or they really think THF's role in FFXI is good as is. I mean, Who doesn't love being a TH Whore, and only a TH whore? inside Abyssea sure, we can tank, but what job cant?. Fking WHM can tank in Abyssea.

inside Abyssea we can DD, but again see above, what job cant?

Point is back in the real world Thief is a terrible job and its only use is TH, and I'm tired of that stupid useless crutch being used as an excuse to keep us mediocre. Treasure hunter is nice, yay, But its not so nice THF needs to remain a useless sack of sh*t in every other department.

Give us something that makes it worth the time to melee? I dont want more Enmity control abilities, it won't help the job, Christ give them to PLD so at least they can be useless on a job that might get use of them. (Really, Would anyone complain if they renamed Coll/Acomp and gave it to PLD instead of THF, and instead gave us some great DD Abilities?)

I'm kinda fed up on all sides of the discussion. Idiots throwing around "You have TH" like its a viable excuse to make the job sucks, and SE being either too stupid, too blind, or just to scared to give THF Anything worthwhile to make it a more useful DD (while they pile on DNC's buffs).

I have to mirror Eeeks here, at this point they may as well just give DNC TH and delete THF as a job, We're completely useless outside of Treasure Hunter, and they actually added mobs that TH didn't effect at all (until just recently where TH 'help's your light level). If that pattern continues even TH will become worthless.


Ugh, Sorry for the Mini rant -.-. I'm sure no one wanted to read it. I don't like being upset , THF is my favorite job and I'm quite compassionate about it. I always considered (wrongly it seems) THF to be the best Critical hit job... what with SA, TA, and naturally high DEX... then MNK gets JA like Impetus, and WAR gets Blood Rage, it just seems like the strong get stronger and THF remains as mediocre as it has been since day one.

This... a million times this...

I too refer to it as Placebo Hunter...


I dare anyone to tell me which on average will yield more seals in abyssea...

yellow (!!) or TH

....... Answer?

TH - Rare 0 -> average 1-2
Yellow (!!) - Rare 1 -> average 3-4


Soooooo you wanted a thf or a yellow proc'r in abyssea with you again?

Treasure Hunter has one foot in the grave, and when it dies, so will the last reasons thf's should "quit complaining" about...

[Alukat]

triple attack II (10% TA rate)
something samilliar to fencer but that works with dual wield.
SA / TA recast time reduction.
JT that transfers x% of the thf's enmity to the TA'd party member.
higher crit dmg boost (~10-15%) by job triat.
offhand weapon with th+2, with good dmg at 90, triple attack rate+.

[Laphine]

As long as that weapon completely nullifies the thief's knife bonus lol. Otherwise we will just have to main hand that and offhand TK lol.

[Alukat]

As long as that weapon completely nullifies the thief's knife bonus lol. Otherwise we will just have to main hand that and offhand TK lol.

yep or thf's knife upgradeable via magian trial ^^

[Karbuncle]

JT that transfers x% of the thf's enmity to the TA'd party member.

I liked this better when you recommended it as a piece of Equipment. I still stand this would be an unintended nerf for a THF in a low-man Tanking situation.

I agree with most other points, aside from a TH+ knife. Don't want another one of those >___>, just let us upgrade Thief's Knife to not suck D: