The utterly Pointless Tenuto and Maiden's Virelai, what else is comming?

[Creelo]

Excuse me, do you mind explaing what is "very wrong" with that exactly? the head is the only "off" peice of that entire set and since skills cap at some point, what exactly is wrong with casting anything in 4/5 or 5/5 AF3+2 set, Nothing is better then hands, nothing is better then legs nothing is better then feet. nothing is better then body, the only excption to hands is the casting time hands before song goes off, only thing i can think of for head is demon's helm, marduk tiara, but that is why i'm asking because as i said, even if you have singing and wind merits, what else would you possibly use if you're already at the skill cap?

Tho i am not sure what CHR and singing caps at for buffs/debuffs ( i assume 600 combined skill)

Finishing a song in 5/5 AF3+2 (or 4/5 AF3+2 with Marduk's Tiara for Scherzo) is definitely optimal. Starting to Cast Songs (Precast) in 5/5 AF3+2 or w/e isn't optimal at all. Unless you're stacking Fast Cast/Song Casting -% Atmas in Abyssea, you're gonna be casting slow as hell (Unless Minstrel's is in effect, but even then...) And in Abyssea, you should really aim to not have to depend on those kinds of Atmas since you'd be much more useful with Atmas that gear towards Refresh/Regain to help proc Red/Blue or help support with heals/etc.

Outside of Abyssea... <.< There's no contest that Brd's that care about their job should be aiming to use a Precast set with their buffing songs.

Precast for debuffs isn't really necessary (Perhaps Lullaby though...), and as far I know, Skill/Chr never really "cap" on debuffs. Debuffs have a 95% Cap rate on landing though iirc, so until you hit a 95% debuff rate on whatever, adding more Skill and CHR WILL help with landing debuffs. Nowadays, there shouldn't be too much issue with landing debuffs on most NMs (I hardly use my ToM Ele Acc staves anymore x.x).

[Vortex]

Finishing a song in 5/5 AF3+2 (or 4/5 AF3+2 with Marduk's Tiara for Scherzo) is definitely optimal. Starting to Cast Songs (Precast) in 5/5 AF3+2 or w/e isn't optimal at all. Unless you're stacking Fast Cast/Song Casting -% Atmas in Abyssea, you're gonna be casting slow as hell (Unless Minstrel's is in effect, but even then...) And in Abyssea, you should really aim to not have to depend on those kinds of Atmas since you'd be much more useful with Atmas that gear towards Refresh/Regain to help proc Red/Blue or help support with heals/etc.

Outside of Abyssea... <.< There's no contest that Brd's that care about their job should be aiming to use a Precast set with their buffing songs.

Precast for debuffs isn't really necessary (Perhaps Lullaby though...), and as far I know, Skill/Chr never really "cap" on debuffs. Debuffs have a 95% Cap rate on landing though iirc, so until you hit a 95% debuff rate on whatever, adding more Skill and CHR WILL help with landing debuffs. Nowadays, there shouldn't be too much issue with landing debuffs on most NMs (I hardly use my ToM Ele Acc staves anymore x.x).

That does not explain exactly "what" the cap is for skill and CHR is because combined for buffs skill i have over 700 ( i may have to dbl check) but i do need a reliable source, the precast gear is a no brainer, but that isnt what im talking about, it's when the songs landed that i asked what you talking about, and as far as i know i do not think you need the marduk head anymore, unless they raised the skill up and i didn't know about it.

In abyssea deep devourer is a set in stone must atma unless you like casting slow songs, as brd's atma options are pretty slim, if you just want everything coverd then deep Devourer, minikin and either merciless matriach sea daughter/VV (for procs) or apoc for insurance but after devourer everything else is pretty optional and very situational.

[Creelo]

That does not explain exactly "what" the cap is for skill and CHR is because combined for buffs skill i have over 700 ( i may have to dbl check) but i do need a reliable source, the precast gear is a no brainer, but that isnt what im talking about, it's when the songs landed that i asked what you talking about, and as far as i know i do not think you need the marduk head anymore, unless they raised the skill up and i didn't know about it.

In abyssea deep devourer is a set in stone must atma unless you like casting slow songs, as brd's atma options are pretty slim, if you just want everything coverd then deep Devourer, minikin and either merciless matriach sea daughter/VV (for procs) or apoc for insurance but after devourer everything else is pretty optional and very situational.

Finishing a song in 5/5 AF3+2 (or 4/5 AF3+2 with Marduk's Tiara for Scherzo) is definitely optimal.

Sorry if you didn't catch this, but Scherzo should be the only song you really need skill for. Chocobo Mazurka also takes TONS of skill too to reach new tiers on the range effect with harps, but that's not too important.

Kirschy on BG forums did testing with Scherzo maaaaanny months ago and essentially found that 660 combined skill was -31% DT and each 10 skill meant another percent off for DT. It was also found that "Scherzo +1" acts as another percent off (So Gjallarhorn's "All Songs +2/3" is 2-3% as well).

I can only speak for Daurdabla but 761 skill with "Scherzo +1" yielded -42% DT (So 760 Skill is -41% DT). Gjallarhorn owners should be able to see higher results due to "All Songs +3" and that there's more Wind skill+ available than String.

Basically, it seems we haven't reached a cap yet on Scherzo, so you should definitely wear skill+ gear for that. Play around with your set and just eliminate certain skill pieces if they don't help you reach the next tier. Personally, I feel like Scherzo is gonna be -50% DT total, with 45% coming from a base combined skill of 800 and that extra 5% coming from a lvl 99 Gjallarhorn's "All Songs +4" and AF3+2 Feet's "Scherzo +1".

Finally @_@ CHR has no effect on buff songs... So don't ever gear your slots (Outside of AF3+2) for CHR while buffing.

Also Deep Devourer isn't needed at all if you have a good enough Precast set... Career Brds should be aiming to get a Precast build that doesn't require DD at all.

Quick Edit: You did ask about the cap on debuffs lol, that's why I mentioned the 95% debuff rate in my previous post. <.<

Tho i am not sure what CHR and singing caps at for buffs/debuffs ( i assume 600 combined skill)

[Rearden]

I'm only at 776 with a 90GHorn, so I wouldn't exactly say there's a huge amount of additional gear...unless I'm overlooking some things for max skill build.

Grip
Marduk/Wind/Musical
+2/+2/Nereidx2
Cape/+2/+2

Edit: For Scherzo anyway. 781 for total build with Oracles feet.

[Creelo]

I'm only at 776 with a 90GHorn, so I wouldn't exactly say there's a huge amount of additional gear...unless I'm overlooking some things for max skill build.

Grip
Marduk/Wind/Musical
+2/+2/Nereidx2
Cape/+2/+2

Edit: For Scherzo anyway. 781 for total build with Oracles feet.

Decided to finally look into this.

310 Singing
310 Wind
+40 from Gjallarhorn
+32 from Merits
~Total 692 from that alone, then from gear.
+7 Felibre's
+7 Marduk's Tiara
+7 Wind Torque
+5 Musical Earring
+3 Singing Earring
+20 AF3+2 Body
+16 AF3+2 Hands
+6 Nereid's x2
+5 Astute
+3 Marching Belt
+10 AF3+2 Legs
Since this would I guess just be for Scherzo, we'll ignore feet or w/e
~Total 781 skill with using AF3+2 feet for Scherzo, 786 skill total with Oracles.

Think this is right, correct if I'm wrong @_@ Interesting to see that it's just possible to barely hit the next tier of Scherzo with full skill gear and Gjallarhorn.

I'd say there's still a bit more skill gear available for Wind vs. String too. Can take advantage of the +10 Wind skill on AF3+2 Body, along with Nereid's and Marching Belt for an additional +9.

[Defiledsickness]

And cure potency. You might need more cure potency too.

Seriously though, recast on pianissimo and tenuto should be dropped down to 5 seconds.

doesnt haste effect spell recast timers? and since i only leveled brd for more invites/triggers, cure potency isnt bad since i normally /sch or /whm. i just need to finish staff but i have a ton of it already so i dont really need more. maybe that earring if it ever drops in price :P

when i posted i was mostly buffing a LaTheine abyssea party. that was 4 DD's and a Blm. all of which were running in different directions. but even when they were close it wasnt such a bad recast, mostly up again when i was done with a song. after posting i did dynamis tho and my songs wore off very quickly, it seemed bad enough when everyone needed the same songs.

as for the full af3+2 im not sure how bards looks but Rdm is full of pieces that cant be beaten for their purpose, but for individual spells there are a ton of pieces to beat them. one piece for atk, one for enfeebling, another for something else etc. im sure bard is the same way. (the neck gives no +acc or +effect only recast so you could obviously swap that based on situation)

[Creelo]

doesnt haste effect spell recast timers? and since i only leveled brd for more invites/triggers, cure potency isnt bad since i normally /sch or /whm. i just need to finish staff but i have a ton of it already so i dont really need more. maybe that earring if it ever drops in price :P

when i posted i was mostly buffing a LaTheine abyssea party. that was 4 DD's and a Blm. all of which were running in different directions. but even when they were close it wasnt such a bad recast, mostly up again when i was done with a song. after posting i did dynamis tho and my songs wore off very quickly, it seemed bad enough when everyone needed the same songs.

as for the full af3+2 im not sure how bards looks but Rdm is full of pieces that cant be beaten for their purpose, but for individual spells there are a ton of pieces to beat them. one piece for atk, one for enfeebling, another for something else etc. im sure bard is the same way. (the neck gives no +acc or +effect only recast so you could obviously swap that based on situation)

Yes, Haste affects recast timers on spells, but you were referring Haste to Pianissimo. If you are buffing multiple people with the same song with Pianissimo, that's just silly and wrong.

The earring you are thinking of is the Roundel Earring, which Brd sadly cannot use.

In that Abyssea pt of the 4 DDs and Blm, the DDs probably aren't going to be all spread out so badly in 4 different directions, they'll probably be at least paired up in two's or something, and you could just buff them in pairs. If not, you can just tell your party to at least try to stay close together, especially when giving Troubadour buffs. You could Pianissimo the Blm Ballad, but it'd be better to just give the Blm and yourself Ballad together, especially useful with Tenuto. In any case, Pianissimo shouldn't have proved very useful at all in that party.

I'm not really sure what you mean about Dynamis though...

Bard's AF3 Neck enhances duration of buff songs and helps with song casting time; it doesn't help with recast whatsoever. :/

[Retsujo]

I've used Tenuto on several occasions. It's definitely not useless :P

[Flionheart]

I think it's impossible to hit fast cast cap without Merciless matriarch and Deep Devourer these days, since the fast cast limit has been upped to 80%~

80%~ was the last estimation I've seen, it maybe lower or higher than that now, but it's near impossible to have useful Atma and still go for optimal fast cast.

[Vortex]

Sorry if you didn't catch this, but Scherzo should be the only song you really need skill for. Chocobo Mazurka also takes TONS of skill too to reach new tiers on the range effect with harps, but that's not too important.

Kirschy on BG forums did testing with Scherzo maaaaanny months ago and essentially found that 660 combined skill was -31% DT and each 10 skill meant another percent off for DT. It was also found that "Scherzo +1" acts as another percent off (So Gjallarhorn's "All Songs +2/3" is 2-3% as well).

I can only speak for Daurdabla but 761 skill with "Scherzo +1" yielded -42% DT (So 760 Skill is -41% DT). Gjallarhorn owners should be able to see higher results due to "All Songs +3" and that there's more Wind skill+ available than String.

Basically, it seems we haven't reached a cap yet on Scherzo, so you should definitely wear skill+ gear for that. Play around with your set and just eliminate certain skill pieces if they don't help you reach the next tier. Personally, I feel like Scherzo is gonna be -50% DT total, with 45% coming from a base combined skill of 800 and that extra 5% coming from a lvl 99 Gjallarhorn's "All Songs +4" and AF3+2 Feet's "Scherzo +1".

Finally @_@ CHR has no effect on buff songs... So don't ever gear your slots (Outside of AF3+2) for CHR while buffing.

Also Deep Devourer isn't needed at all if you have a good enough Precast set... Career Brds should be aiming to get a Precast build that doesn't require DD at all.

Quick Edit: You did ask about the cap on debuffs lol, that's why I mentioned the 95% debuff rate in my previous post. <.<

Late reply since i had not come back after last pos for a while, i figured skilsl were caped, but i was unware for the schretzo. i was fully aware CHR had no effect on buffs, i'v been playing BRD a while. but i did want to know what the cap was for it FOR debuffs, because i honestly think i have TO much and wasnt sure where to stop. not that i have any problems landing songs (except for elegy on heavly resistant mobs like orthrus) you cleared the skill part.