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  1. #71
    Player Fetus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Eh...
    Posts
    85
    Character
    Fetus
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 57
    Quote Originally Posted by hideka View Post
    wow, i totally missed you calling geomancer a stupid job. youve quite obviously NEVER played ff tactics with a good geomancer. geomancers are freaking AWESOME. i demand you take back that statement!
    lol. Fine, I take it back. I honestly forgot about FF Tactics, although it's the only other FF game I've ever played. Don't throw rocks at me.

    A lot of the lore of FFXI cannot be literally implemented into the game. We all know the Blood-seed Grimoire consumes the blood of other magi, but because of game functionality, we can't do something like that. As much as I would want to drag certain people into Ruhotz Silvermines and sacrifice them, I simply can't. The only other way I see to implementing it would be to have it consume your own HP instead, which seems infinitely more feasible.

    The idea behind augmenting stratagems was because Ulbrecht had enhanced stratagems due to his dabbling into the Blood-seed Grimoire. The only difference between my suggestions for augmenting versus those of Ulbrecht is that his boosted Alacrity made all of his spells insta-cast, Manifestation made all of his magic AoE and his Ebullience was far superior to what we have now. Unfortunately for Ulbrecht, it ended up costing him his life. To implement this in a playable fashion, my idea was to allow for similiar effects at the cost of your own HP. It's simliar, yet not the same. Does everyone see the connection yet or do I have to make a bullet-point list? I think I'm being quite clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by hideka
    no offense, but if someone makes a miniscule mistake and you point it out in an attempt to bash them, then that makes you petty good sir.
    I pointed it out because :45 is not :48. If you think I was "bashing" you over 3 seconds, you're making me out to be more of a sociopath than I really am. It's nothing personal, really. I'm anal about details, even completely miniscule ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by hideka
    by restricting addenendum white, you restrict Na spells. what spells does redmage not have access to? NA SPELLS.
    by restricting addenendum black, you restrict Tier 5 magic (all other adenda reliant spells are provided with RDM sub)
    What spells does Redmage not have access to? Tier 5 Magic.

    Redmage total fast cast : 50% @ cap
    Scholar total Fast cast: 48%.
    Thank you for pointing that out. I did completely overlook the -na spell issue and the Fast Cast thing. Although, I'm not sure if you're complaining about the Fast Cast or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by hideka
    theres also a good reason why we CANT ascension haste: MP. if you could ascension haste, in the term of one dynamis, a scholar could spend less then 1/20th of the MP then a WHM, who isnt subbing SCH, on casting haste. that would make SCH the only job who should EVER cast haste (or at least a whm or rdm subbing sch). i wont lie tho, id love to see all casters get access to hastega.
    I don't see how this is an issue at all. SCH is already renowned for MP conservation, it's nothing new that they spend far less MP to use the same goodies as other mages. Nobody complains about it, though, or sees it as a negative do they?Everybody wants Hastega. SCH is a perfect candidate to learn it under certain protocol. As is, the only job who should really Haste anybody is RDM. They're perfectly optimized to do it with all that increased enhancing magic duration+Composure.

    Quote Originally Posted by hideka
    i think you need to get a whole lot less hostile with your posting. people didnt like your idea, so i suggest getting over it. this is an adult world, where temper-tantrums, name calling, and all around belligerence arent tolerated. we are having an adult conversation and debate over a certian topic. by resorting to name calling or failing to provide a proper defense to your idea, your just making less and less people want to support your topic. I suggest taking a step back, calming down, and approaching your idea from anothers perspective and attempting to see what they see wrong with your idea. once you do that, hit the drawing board and mallet out a more refined and balanced idea that will please people. this is how progress is made, not by petty name calling or brash insults.
    So far, I've only really seen two people complain. Considering the utter lack of traffic to the forums, in general, I wouldn't consider two people as the majority. Not to start anything, but the real world tolerates name-calling, intolerance and belligerence about as much as it tolerates politeness, tolerance and understanding. But that's not really a discussion for this forum.

    The thing is, I have provided plenty of "defense" for my idea. I jotted down some ideas, typed them up, posted them in this thread and tried to make them as concise and organized as possible. Because some people read the first few words, they jump to some pretty baseless conclusions or assumptions. When somebody like Silvers comes along and says "ur idea is dumb n op n shallow", I don't feel any obligation to "defend" my idea to him because he's made no points about how it is dumb, shallow or over-powered. With a few tweaks, Crimson Arts could be a fantastic asset to Scholar, but I don't see anybody except me trying to figure out how to improve it. Just some people making unconnected or trite commentary.

    If you think the idea has merit, try to improve it. I've done my best to try to include other sensible ideas into my own, but it just seems like everyone would rather take stabs at it without trying to improve it... and if that's how things are gonna' work around this forum, there's no point in anybody posting anything because nothing constructive will be designed.

    To Silvers:

    Shallow: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shallow

    Balance: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/balance

    I am inviting you to point out exactly what is shallow and unbalanced (about Crimson Arts); And I cordially invite you to improve it.

    So far, you've commented about giving it a shorter duration without reason. The HP-consuming effect has already been covered by the augmented stratagems themselves. In terms of balance, the only things you've mentioned is the Divine Magic Skill/Dark Magic Skill issue and that the bonuses aren't large enough.

    In my opinion, Light Arts shouldn't even optimize Divine Magic Skill. Especially since SCH learns no native divine-magic spells. It makes little sense that it does. They should probably just remove that aspect of Light Arts from the game, IMO.

    A quick fix for Crimson Arts would be to just have it optimize all aspects of magic skills then.
    (0)
    Last edited by Fetus; 03-25-2011 at 11:16 AM.

  2. #72
    Player Judge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    31
    Character
    Judge
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 90
    SCH being a support mix from whm, rdm, and blm makes it hard to decide what it needs adjusted. most the previous posts (even from other threads) compare sch to blm or whm repeatedly. you cant(shouldnt) be surpassing the specialist in his/her own field. that's why i support SCH getting something unique.


    Glyph
    Target: self
    Duration: 180 seconds
    MP cost: T4ish
    Cast time: T2ish
    Recast time: 60 seconds doubled if used with accession/manifestation
    Element: Varies with weather effect when cast(w/o weather it fails to cast)

    upon striking the player, enemy activates a single effect(buff wears off after activated) taking significant damage.
    (they could even use the skill-chain animations)

    Specific element add. effect:
    Fire- plague or addle
    Water- poison
    Thunder- Stun
    Earth- slow or break
    Wind- silence or gravity
    Ice- paralyze or bind
    Light- dia3 or flash
    Dark- curse or bio3

    having a duality for each element means sch couldn't spam one for cheese effect, it would mostly be for the supportive dmg.

    Elemental skill could determine the dmg, enfeebling skill determine the enfeeble duration, inherits bonuses from Helix merits, and would be very original, bringing something to soloing AND to the party.

    Imagine tank has hate.. gets hit.. boom! activates the "mine"... healer cures.. pulls hate.. boom! another "mine".. DD WS's.. pulls hate..
    lather, rinse ,repeat... SCH recasts.

    We already have ~spikes in game. What about Glyphs? This would be "evolved enhancement". SCH is supposed to be able to combine skills after all.
    (1)

  3. #73
    Player hideka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    482
    Character
    Hideka
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    SAM Lv 99
    wow, that actually sounds kinda cool lol. however id probably just make it single target castable on PT members, with a hefty recast.
    (0)

  4. #74
    Player Fetus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Eh...
    Posts
    85
    Character
    Fetus
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 57
    I've updated my post concerning Crimson Arts and other content-related changes pertaining to SCH.

    Click here if you're too lazy to scroll back to page 4.
    (0)

  5. #75
    Player Merton9999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    528
    Character
    Mordru
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    I love the fusion magic idea, especially Hideka's names for them. I'm casting a yes vote for the light and darkness ones too, at 99, to create the all-element SC. Or, maybe that's how we could get access to Ultima, rather than making it a straight schema. I like Judge's Glyph concept a lot too.

    I'm also in favor of any others that give something unique or fun to the job, rather than adding existing spells to SCH. I like the regain and hate control spells for this reason, and would like to see them enhanced through gear, merits, traits or JA's. Same with the weather spells - double element yes, but I also love the Geomancy concept I've read that adds a bonus to the target depending on their weather, regardless of the source of the weather (zone or storm spell). MAB for ice, evasion for wind, double attack % for fire, etc.

    Cure V is the only existing spell I'd like to see added, besides the remaining tier V nukes.

    As far as all the balance arguments are concerned I have to confess I couldn't care less. I just want to look cool in my lab coat instead of that awful WHM AF3.
    (0)

  6. #76
    Player MrButter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    14
    Character
    Mascrapone
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 95
    First off I don't typically approve of all this clamoring for buffs to SCH. It's a very powerful job as is, Barring the enmity generation.

    Scholar doesn't need to nuke on the same level as a Black mage, as that is black mage's niche. Similarly they don't need to heal on the same level as a white mage. Further enhancements to light and dark arts is really quite unnecessary.

    The sublimation bit is just silly. If you're too lazy to macro in and out of an idle set, suffer the consequences. Even if I agreed with the point, the programming side of it would be unnecessarily elaborate on SE's end. If you have no gear to enhance it, sublimation already charges, based on your HP, in about 1m20s and restores ~250, which makes it's MP return roughly equal to Refresh II in half the time.

    Magic might is... Silly, as is prevent death and dual-elemental nuking. We have perpetuation and it's pretty damn Skippy, and our enhancing magic skill is just about on par with RDM. We already nuke better than RDM and cure better, so it would be unfair to also buff better than them. I also do not understand the poo-poo face attitude about not closing level 3 skill chains with spells. I mean, you're closing a skill chain with a magic spell. That's already kind of 'lolwut?" You are essentially getting a 50% damage boost to your last nuke (60% with +2 hands) and setting up a magic burst opportunity for other mages in your party. SCH in general is a job that can do everything with a little added flair. We aren't supposed to be able to do everything just as well/better than other jobs. We don't need to be on BLM tier for nukes, we don't need to close level 3 skill chains with the melee jobs, and we don't need Cure 5. (An enmity reduction to Cure 4 would be sooooo nice though.)

    Now then for the sake of not being a complete Debby-downer, I actually like this magic shield idea(sans the name), particularly if it stacks with carols. If you don't need magic staggers in Abyssea, most people don't keep bards handy anymore and an extra option for magical defense is always a + in my book. Also Modus Veritas is in great need of fixing. I don't need quick recasts, I just want it to go back to it's old potentially broken self. Sure if you get 18 scholars together you can break the game but a.) it's not going to happen, b.) Just make AV and PW immune to it, like soul eater.

    And quick FYI it's 10 minutes recast not 20.

    NOW THAT THAT IS OUT OF THE WAY!

    In general I would absolutely love to see the spell Astra make it into the buff roster. And it doesn't even have to go to Scholar, I'd be perfectly happy to see it on White Mage. Or better still: both jobs, to scholar under Addendum: White. I'm simply posting this here because I main Scholar.

    For those not in the know, Astra appears in the Final Fantasy Tactics Advance series, and Also in Final Fantasy 13 under the name 'Veil' (but Astra just sounds much cooler.) It blocks a status ailment from landing on the target and then disappears like a blink shadow. Now naturally when placed in XI it would need to grant maybe 2-3 Status blocks to be truly useful, and preferably it would not be dispelled by AoE like standard shadows are. Imagine the stress this could take off of healing jobs when fighting status-heavy mobs. In general it would be a very strong spell to add to a healer's arsenal. Accession compatibility would further increase it's usefulness, as would blocking the instant-death effect.

    (edits for spelling grammar and a few other corrections.)

    Second Edit:

    It would be a nice touch to reduce the required level to learn the storm spells so that Thunderstorm, Voidstorm and Aurorastorm are accessible to sub job. With that in mind, I'm in favor of a storm II spell roster to keep SCH's weather abilities their own, in the same way that while all /RDM jobs get refresh, RDM still has Refresh II.

    I will also have rebuttal for ideas posted beyond the first page after i have time to read through them. I am currently cleaning my closet.
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    Last edited by MrButter; 03-27-2011 at 07:51 AM.

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