Adjustments to Embrava and Perfect Defense

[Mirage]

but but guys, didn't you know? Ryunohige has additional effect: take no damage.

[saevel]

but but guys, didn't you know? Ryunohige has additional effect: take no damage.

Didn't know that, thought its AM gave you immunity to terror and ID.

[Mirage]

Obviously, it is both.

[Byrth]

If my group can kill both clones with 90 second PD right now, I have to imagine that we could kill both clones with twice as many people (an alliance) in the future even with only 55 second PD/30 seconds of shock squall. Alliances really should be unaffected by this change and should have a 100% win rate either way. It's lowman groups that will suffer, and mostly because they'll finally have to skill up their summoner mules and maybe even *gasp* play summoner when they're up for Alex.

I think you guys are overreacting.

[Vortex]

If my group can kill both clones with 90 second PD right now, I have to imagine that we could kill both clones with twice as many people (an alliance) in the future even with only 55 second PD/30 seconds of shock squall. Alliances really should be unaffected by this change and should have a 100% win rate either way. It's lowman groups that will suffer, and mostly because they'll finally have to skill up their summoner mules and maybe even *gasp* play summoner when they're up for Alex.

I think you guys are overreacting.

The problem is as old as this game is an unless you are in a solid LS, finding skilled groups to be able to do this are quite difficult.

And for years people have not cared about summoner, let alone enough to skill it up, only a hand full of people i even know actually took summoner seriously, so this will severly cripple most groups. and the die hard "come a real job" players will not ever bother leveling and working on smn to reach half the skill level needed.

But what SE does not seem to realize is that if we stop getting content with NMs and absurd TP moves people wouldn't need to depend on 1 trick ponies like embrava and PD. there is a difference between challenging and just plain unfair.

[Camiie]

Honestly, if they implemented the patch exactly as stated:
4) Provenance would be slightly more annoying, in that you'd need better DDs to win the zerg because you have to eat 2 Marches.

What exactly do you mean by better? Where's the line going to be drawn now? I guess I'm really posing that question to SE, not that they'd ever answer it. Are we supposed to have gotten all 1500 HMPs before we even set foot in Provenance? Are we supposed to have gone 5/5 or 15/15 from NNI as well? Does SE even think about such things? While I get that Provevance isn't the hardest thing in the game it's already somewhat exclusionary. How much more so will it become?

[Karbuncle]

If my group can kill both clones with 90 second PD right now, I have to imagine that we could kill both clones with twice as many people (an alliance) in the future even with only 55 second PD/30 seconds of shock squall. Alliances really should be unaffected by this change and should have a 100% win rate either way. It's lowman groups that will suffer, and mostly because they'll finally have to skill up their summoner mules and maybe even *gasp* play summoner when they're up for Alex.

I think you guys are overreacting.

>Everyone has Access to 17 People and Fully Skilled Summoners
>Everyone with a Relic is in a Linkshell with 18+ People.

On a serious note, No, I don't think anyones overreacting. Okay, well maybe some of them are, but not many. This PD Nerf is going to substantially hurt a lot of Relic owners chances of possessing a relic, Simply because with 90 second PD, They at least had that margin of error since, lets face it, its kinda needed today since most people left in this game are pants on head retarded.

Those 8-10 Man groups killing ADL probably go with 8-10 because they only have 8-10 people.

With this new 56s(max) time, Its going to cut the room for error down, and the luck factor is going to play a bigger part. 100% Win rate is, while not impossible, unlikely now and after PD Nerf due to things like "Wrong clone? Here, Let me summon 3 more", and "Oh you killed that did you? Have a InstaDeath Smash to half your group". There are just too many factors to allow 100% win rate with consistency... Very high win rate? Yes, the group i go with happens to have a superb win rate, and I don't quite think it'll drop SIGNIFICANTLY, but i can see it dropping, Considering I know for a fact most of my LS's summoners are underskilled... Me and i think 2 others have been working on capping it... (Personally I've been trying to cap it since 99 cap came around).

So, while some groups will just up their participation, others don't have this courtesy, and those who relied on shouts because they have no Linkshell what with most/all good Linkshells either gone or not recruiting anymore, or those who buy their marrows, Will be harmed by this. Enough to completely stop them from trying? No, Probably not, But enough that its going to hinder a lot of relics owners chances at a 99 relic more than it should, considering the already difficult nature of the quest for most players.

And I can't even blame the players at this point, Linkshell events were dead for a long time, and most LS died with it. Now most if not everything is either done low-man or through shouts... and ADL, (And legion) just throw a monkey wrench into the whole equation. I dumb lucked into a good Linkshell, But others aren't so lucky.

Also, If it hinders it enough, Some of those 8-10 man(or lower) Groups who farmed it for gil might stop, or raise the prices, lowering the potential 99's overall because of it. Its speculation at this point, But there are some groups who farm ADL to sell the Marrows, With this update it may become too Luck-factored to bother due to the decreased time to kill.

Taking 34 Seconds off a 90s ability is quite significant... Especially when it has a decay effect.

So uh, yah, Maybe some of them are overreacting like its the end of the world, But its far from a non-issue for the majority of groups out there... Just because some, including me, are lucky enough to be in one of the few remaining linkshells that don't suck, doesn't mean we all are Byrth. I know its hard to be subjective but try thinking about the common man sometimes, Yah?

[Byrth]

My group is 5 melee and a THF mule along with support-job mules that aren't in alliance and one summoner that is. What I meant was:
If my 6-person group can kill with 90 second PD now

->

The primary source of supply for marrows are LS-wide fights, not a low-man party.

->

Hopefully an alliance with twice as many DDs can still kill it with less PD if they're the primary source.

[Karbuncle]

My group is 5 melee and a THF mule along with support-job mules that aren't in alliance and one summoner that is. What I meant was:
If my 6-person group can kill with 90 second PD now

->



->

Hopefully an alliance with twice as many DDs can still kill it with less PD if they're the primary source.

Your group is probably exceptionally skilled. You can say "5 DD+ THF", But in reality, Mules or not, You likely have close to 8-9 People, INcluding the SMN, BRD, COR, etc. So realistically you'll need at least 6-9 people regardless for an acceptable win rate, as it stands now pre-nerf.

Still, I see what you're saying in the fact it would be easy for an Alliance to handle, And it would, But, Somewhere in my rant i mentioned not everyone has access to 17 other like minded, Non Pants-On-Head retarded individuals, Which is who will be damaged most, and... despite our luck, These players are the common majority, and if they're hurt, we're hurt, Because subscription fees from us only go so far.

Also, While the biggest(possible?Speculation?) Supplier of Marrows may be 18 Man groups, There are still a good selection of low man Suppliers... This will only cause to lower supply, and raise prices on Marrows. While good for sellers, Hurts buyers.

Its a lot of pros and cons, and its far from impossible or difficult, Its just going to hurt the common man a lot more, Once again. I'm not talking about the pants on head tards, I'm talking about the guy who got a Relic, has the sense to try and 99 it, But is SoL out of a LS Because all the good ones are done recruiting or dead... So his methods become Shout for an Alliance, or Farm Gil for Marrows, Both of which will be hampered by this. Either by Increasing Prices and Less Stock, or by the fact Pick up groups now have a significantly less margin of error.

(There are actually some Pick up ADLs, Shocking but it happens >>)

Again, Just because we can say words like, "Get 18 Good people", or "Fully Skilled/Gear Summoners", Doesn't mean these things exist easily or realistically for many players, Its a sad reality of the game right now... Those people are either in closed Linkshells, Unwilling to help, Or don't exist.

While this is to an extent the Players fault for closing themselves off, as a designer, you need to take into account most players are pricks who only want to help themselves, or absolutely retarded, So while the player going for the 99 Relic might be a good player, the idiots he has to surround himself with in order to tackle an enemy like ADL will weigh him down, and with this nerf, Sink him into the fking grave.

[Camate]

Greetings!

There seemed to be some confusion over on the Japanese forum about whether or not the Perfect Defense and Embrava adjustments will be implemented in the future. Sorry if there were mixed messages, but while they have been postponed from the December version update, we will be implementing them eventually. However, this doesn’t mean that once we implement them that we will not touch them again. This goes for content as well, but we will continue to look at conditions after implementation.