Your actions are making the entire FFXI community suffer

[Karah]

Judging by the replies, and the AWESOME tl;dr's I think that's what he's missing.

We, (I, me whoever) make extensive use of hyperbole, I've made a few references to this in previous posts.

By ALL RME being worthless, it's stated with the knowing that;

This only means as a damage source. Shields, utilities, macro pieces etc, are still awesome.

However, adding the caveat that yagrush is an epic macro piece, even though all other mythics are trash at this particular point in time is foolish. It's quicker, it gets the point across that ALL of them are junk. Not 99.1% since yagrush isn't a weapon its a nifty piece of equipment you happen to wear in your hand instead of on your hand.

The negativity thing, well, there's a distinct possibility that most of it is caused by, or fueled by me (and a couple others)... Humans as a whole are a negative (realistic) ((usually)) species. It's much more realistic to stop trying to be optimistic after you've seen what's been done and how it's been handled. If you still have an optimistic bone in your body after the more recent promises/updates... I applaud you sir.

[Daemon]

I get your point, but people could think a little more independently for themselves. I say REM are worthless while I wield the two shields and am slowly, surely, building a burtgang.

The vastness of the statement is only slightly greater than the vastness of the truth: In one swoop, SE outdated 90% of RME, the only exceptions being weapons that weren't meant for damage.

I know you think it did, but this top didn't need a thread of its own.

Player one: "Is REM worth getting??"
(Maybe new or returning player asking)

Player two: "Lol REM, No one needs that anymore because Delve Weapon made everything useless " (Most likely because this person was denied being invited for not having a delve weapon)


Player three: "Why waste your time when you can get delve weapons faster?"
(Maybe doesn't even own one but got a delve weapon already by playing a job such as Bard, WHM so has no idea what REM weapons can do)

Player four: "It's outdated who cares about REM anymore"
(Dissappointed that they were working on an REM and gave up and really doesn't care about anything)

Yelling in Jeuno in conversations like these is promoting to others who have no knowledge of the topic can effect people's decision and motivate players not to do them.

So then topics made to talk about how things are irrelevant deserve its own post and not the ones defending saying their not...

And yes this is exactly the /Yell I saw in Jeuno.

[Sparthos]

The idea not enough people are shouting groups is without merit. Getting DD for Delve is easy enough, if you then want to shout upwards of an hour looking for healers, tanks, zombies etc. The fact is that the shout pool is shallow, people dont care to spend hours building a subpar plasm party and the good players are probably doing LS runs thus need not join pickups.

This is for the premier content! Shouting older content like Meebles could have you begging for 3-4 people all day.

In the past you could simply keep fishing for randoms and offset the need for great players through sheer force and numbers but right now when servers are dipping below 800 at some hours options are limited.

[Francisco]

^And this is exactly what the purpose of my post was about. "Your actions is effecting the entire community" and others saying that it must only be on my sever... Ours is not the only to be facing this issue.

Well, I wasn't really sure if you were admonishing the players (like me) who say "you can't do Delve without a Delve weapon, because no one will invite you", or the players who say "we won't invite you because you don't have a Delve weapon" (and heck, I don't even get that... they just don't respond.

Again, one person's perspective, but it's basically ended my interest in FFXI going forward. It's easy to say "wow, Shiva sucks", but I can't imagine other servers are much better. The FFXI community has long since turned to trash.

The Devs don't get a free pass here either. It's beyond me why they thought/think the path they've taken is a good one. Love or hate Abyssea, it did let players accomplish quite a bit at the drop of the hat with minimal support. This was a good thing, considering the awful, awful, period between WotG and Abyssea basically killed all the end game linkshells. To suddenly go back to 18-man content after Abyssea was insane. It forces people into pickup groups which sucks for about a million reasons.

Combine the need for pickup groups with the totally arbitrary psychotic stats they threw on new weapons, and it just becomes much, much worse for everyone from a progressive point of view.

Lost in all of this is that FFXI is supposed to be a game. People want to log on and play the game, participate in the content, often with the few friends they have left on this God-forsaken software. All too often it's either sitting around waiting for shouts, or sitting around, shouting, and giving up when there's no tanks or healers.

At this stage in the game's life, it's amazing the devs still think it's a good idea to add primarily 18-man content.

[Daemon]

Well, I wasn't really sure if you were admonishing the players (like me) who say "you can't do Delve without a Delve weapon, because no one will invite you", or the players who say "we won't invite you because you don't have a Delve weapon" (and heck, I don't even get that... they just don't respond.

Again, one person's perspective, but it's basically ended my interest in FFXI going forward. It's easy to say "wow, Shiva sucks", but I can't imagine other servers are much better. The FFXI community has long since turned to trash.

The Devs don't get a free pass here either. It's beyond me why they thought/think the path they've taken is a good one. Love or hate Abyssea, it did let players accomplish quite a bit at the drop of the hat with minimal support. This was a good thing, considering the awful, awful, period between WotG and Abyssea basically killed all the end game linkshells. To suddenly go back to 18-man content after Abyssea was insane. It forces people into pickup groups which sucks for about a million reasons.

Combine the need for pickup groups with the totally arbitrary psychotic stats they threw on new weapons, and it just becomes much, much worse for everyone from a progressive point of view.

Lost in all of this is that FFXI is supposed to be a game. People want to log on and play the game, participate in the content, often with the few friends they have left on this God-forsaken software. All too often it's either sitting around waiting for shouts, or sitting around, shouting, and giving up when there's no tanks or healers.

At this stage in the game's life, it's amazing the devs still think it's a good idea to add primarily 18-man content.

Ok now I can agree with you on these points. But my purpose was to point out an issue that I see is going on. And this topic was only 1 of the many others. But since I've yet to see anyone step up and say something positive to other players, this is why I've been trying so hard to take the initiative to add some positivity back into the community rather sit and watch all these rants go on.

FF14 is around the corner, and these negative comments, posts, complaints are only feeding fire to several other players giving them less motivation and possibly a better reason to quit and drop the game to move over to 14.

[Nebo]

^And this is exactly what the purpose of my post was about. "Your actions is effecting the entire community" and others saying that it must only be on my sever... Ours is not the only to be facing this issue.

I think you are recognizing a problem but misplacing the blame.

In my oppinon, the real problem here is not elitism. That may be a symptom of the problem, but it is not the disease.

The way I see it, the root of this problem is a combination of things:

1. Only a handful of jobs are really useful in delve. So the majority of players that farm delve on a regular basis, generally do so on jobs they don't enjoy as much and view it as work. They usually want to do it the most efficient way they can for the work they put in.
   
   This is something I think job/content adjustments to promote more job inclusion would go a long way to allieviate.
   
2. There is no auto-group function so it usually falls to one person to organize, shout, give instructions, listen to bitching...blah blah.
   
   This is the major issue creating the lack of demand for pickup DDs. This is just simple economics. Anytime you have a supply (lots of DDs sitting around) this high with demand (limited shout groups being formed) this low...the price (R/E/M/D requirements) goes up.
   
   It's fine to say "Well, these lazy players should just form their own groups" but in all practicality that logic doesn't work.
   
   For starters, the majority of FFXI players don't read these forums, BG, research Wiki's, or even have basic understanding of game mechanics and job roles in an alliance setting. So the mere IDEA of forming a group of up to 17 strangers is a preeeetty daunting task. Most have enough problems just learning how to play, gear and become skilled with their own jobs.
   
   Even lots of intelligent, talented, skilled players are just not cut out to be leaders. Social Anxiety, Poor communication skills, language barriers, poor conflict resolution skills, etc are not uncommon in our community.
   
   IT CAN TAKE HOURS for even skilled delve leaders to form a PUG. It can be a very off-putting exerience. And if your PUG members see that you are bringing sub-par jobs with sup-par gear, getting sub par plasm per run...you will start to see it take even longer to fill your shout groups. Probably leading to burn out form trying to build delve groups and eventual unsubscription.
   
3. There are lots of people sitting around waiting for shouts that have all of the things being asked for.

So while I agree that there is a lot of negativity right now, I disagree that playerbase attitude problems are the root cause.

I think it is the lack of built in grouping functionality, lack of fixes to important problems, and recent drastic changes that donkey kicked an 11 year old paradigm right in the nuts.

I don't think it will change either without some serious work from the development team that they do not seem to have the resources to pull off.

But this is nothing new. Negativity is not new, and it is someting that this dev team is particularly adept at fueling with some pretty strange decisions (long before SoA).

And they pretty clealry have a limited understanding of the game they are developing. Which is frustrating because they communicate with us so little...and seem to focus on wierd cutesy things while major problems go unaddressed.

[Daemon]

Judging by the replies, and the AWESOME tl;dr's I think that's what he's missing.

We, (I, me whoever) make extensive use of hyperbole, I've made a few references to this in previous posts.

By ALL RME being worthless, it's stated with the knowing that;

This only means as a damage source. Shields, utilities, macro pieces etc, are still awesome.

However, adding the caveat that yagrush is an epic macro piece, even though all other mythics are trash at this particular point in time is foolish. It's quicker, it gets the point across that ALL of them are junk. Not 99.1% since yagrush isn't a weapon its a nifty piece of equipment you happen to wear in your hand instead of on your hand.

The negativity thing, well, there's a distinct possibility that most of it is caused by, or fueled by me (and a couple others)... Humans as a whole are a negative (realistic) ((usually)) species. It's much more realistic to stop trying to be optimistic after you've seen what's been done and how it's been handled. If you still have an optimistic bone in your body after the more recent promises/updates... I applaud you sir.

And negativity can possibly make a persons actions careless without thinking leading to a person to become narrow minded in their way of thought which could promote their ideas to others as fact based on their emotions that were corrupted by their experience.

And we know some people tend to base decisions on other players advice through hearsay.

[Daemon]

I think you are recognizing a problem but misplacing the blame.

In my oppinon, the real problem here is not elitism. That may be a symptom of the problem, but it is not the disease.

The way I see it, the root of this problem is a combination of things:

1. Only a handful of jobs are really useful in delve. So the majority of players that farm delve on a regular basis, generally do so on jobs they don't enjoy as much and view it as work. They usually want to do it the most efficient way they can for the work they put in.
   
   This is something I think job/content adjustments to promote more job inclusion would go a long way to allieviate.
   
2. There is no auto-group function so it usually falls to one person to organize, shout, give instructions, listen to bitching...blah blah.
   
   This is the major issue creating the lack of demand for pickup DDs. This is just simple economics. Anytime you have a supply (lots of DDs sitting around) this high with demand (limited shout groups being formed) this low...the price (R/E/M/D requirements) goes up.
   
   It's fine to say "Well, these lazy players should just form their own groups" but in all practicality that logic doesn't work.
   
   For starters, the majority of FFXI players don't read these forums, BG, research Wiki's, or even have basic understanding of game mechanics and job roles in an alliance setting. So the mere IDEA of forming a group of up to 17 strangers is a preeeetty daunting task.
   
   Even lots of intelligent, talented, skilled players are just not cut out to be leaders. Social Anxiety, Poor communication skills, language barriers, poor conflict resolution skills, etc are not uncommon in our community.
   
   IT CAN TAKE HOURS for even skilled delve leaders to form a PUG. It can be a very off-putting exerience. And if your PUG members see that you are bringing sub-par jobs with sup-par gear, getting sub par plasm per run...you will start to see it take even longer to fill your shout groups. Probably leading to burn out form trying to build delve groups and eventual unsubscription.
   
3. There are lots of people sitting around waiting for shouts that have all of the things being asked for.

So while I agree that there is a lot of negativity right now, I disagree that playerbase attitude problems are the root problem.

I think its the lack of built in grouping functionality, lack of fixes to important problems, and recent drastic changes that flipped an 11 year old game flat on its head that is causing the negativity.

I don't think it will change either without some serious work from the development team that they do not seem to have the resources to pull off.

Well from my point of view is that any job "Could" be useful if others actually took the time to party with different jobs and experiment (And because leveling quickly in 18 man alliances doesn't offer people this option properly)

So a lot of parties are built based on what they know "Works" leading to "Favor" certain jobs than others. Which leads to leaving out people based on "Discrimination" (and people don't even realize it)

Im in a JP LS that does many events where they don't set such high standards and criticize others for not having certain gear or jobs.

Everytime we gather for events I ask My JP LS Leader "What job do you want me to play?"
And she "ALWAYS" says. "Anything np ^^"

I've even gone Gimp on certain jobs because I logged on late without having time to gear up. And they are so nice, even say that it doesn't matter whether we win or lose, but that it only matters that we had a good time trying. And because they never make narrow minded decisions we are able to try different jobs and learn from our failures and have a good time rather only see a goal and enforce greed into our actions.

So this is where a lot of my points are coming from.

Again here is where I stand to say "Your actions is effecting the entire community"

And this is why I tend to see a lot of excuses overshadowing people's unreasonable logic to things that could be made simple if people re-observe their way of thinking and how it effects others.

[Nebo]

Well from my point of view is that any job "Could" be useful if others actually took the time to party with different jobs and experiment (And because leveling quickly in 18 man alliances doesn't offer people this option properly)

So a lot of parties are built based on what they know "Works" leading to "Favor" certain jobs than others. Which leads to leaving out people based on "Discrimination" (and people don't even realize it)

Im in a JP LS that does many events where they don't set such high standards and criticize others for not having certain gear or jobs.

Everytime we gather for events I ask My JP LS Leader "What job do you want me to play?"
And she "ALWAYS" says. "Anything np ^^"

I've even gone Gimp on certain jobs because I logged on late without having time to gear up. And they are so nice, even say that it doesn't matter whether we win or lose, but that it only matters that we had a good time trying. And because they never make narrow minded decisions we are able to try different jobs and learn from our failures and have a good time rather only see a goal and enforce greed into our actions.

So this is where a lot of my points are coming from.

Again here is where I stand to say again "You actions is effecting the entire community"

And you are perfectly entitled to enjoy that style of play and have that fun. No one can fault you for that.

However, I think you are wrong to point the finger at the players forming PUG groups for not finding that scenario fun.

It would be more accurate to say that "the dev team is harming the community by not adressing some of the more fundamental issues with gameplay, while making crazy changes."

[Daemon]

And you are perfectly entitled to enjoy that style of play and have that fun. No one can fault you for that.

However, I think you are wrong to point the finger at the players forming PUG groups for not finding that scenario fun.

Have you tried other party setups with an open mind? Rather than see defeat did you go back and learn from your mistakes and try other things? Or are you basing your party setups with what you "Know only works"?