WHM trait: occult accumen (but for curing)

I had a random, but simple idea, what if WHMs could get TP from curing, much like occult accumen for Black Mages? It would let back line WHMs actually use the WS Dagan to get MP back. Maybe it'd be a high level trait so only WHM main can get it. It'd force a WHM to not change their weapon if they want to gain the benefits of being able to use Dagan, but I think this would be great for WHMs to be able to keep their MP up on their own without solely relying on select pieces of gear (empyrean pants), and refresh/SCH sub.

What do you guys think?

Sure, for TRUST only. it would accomplish nothing for a real whm. Change weapons far too frequently for it to matter, whms do not melee.

It promotes bad play.

Dagan? Give me some Mystic Boon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vae

Sure, for TRUST only. it would accomplish nothing for a real whm. Change weapons far too frequently for it to matter, whms do not melee.

It promotes bad play.

---

Don't believe these lies.

I'd settle for an equivalent of Occult Acumen that worked with Divine spells and Cures used to deal damage, and I'd be happy to share it with PLD. (SCH doesn't need it because they have the real thing to work with.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catmato

Don't believe these lies.

---

Uh, they're not completely lies.
A back-line whm who takes the job a tad more serious than performing simple curebot duties uses a lot of weapons for the insane amount of spells we have at our disposal.
I can give you a list of the weapons I alone use and what I use them for right now, if you want.
So unless they give whm a trait enabling them to keep their TP while switching weapons (imagine the sh*tstorm that would cause among the melee jobs), Occult Acumen is completely useless.

Besides, Empyrian pants already give us (close to) free cures, so unless you have an inefficient cure set or use your MP inefficient otherwise whm can last for an insanely long time without support as it is.

As for the melee whm discussion, I thought we abandoned that ship in 2009 with the conclusion "there's a place and time for it"?
I capped my club and staff skills for a reason, and whenever the oportunity presents itself, trust me I'm smashing things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sabishii

I had a random, but simple idea, what if WHMs could get TP from curing, much like occult accumen for Black Mages? It would let back line WHMs actually use the WS Dagan to get MP back. Maybe it'd be a high level trait so only WHM main can get it. It'd force a WHM to not change their weapon if they want to gain the benefits of being able to use Dagan, but I think this would be great for WHMs to be able to keep their MP up on their own without solely relying on select pieces of gear (empyrean pants), and refresh/SCH sub.

What do you guys think?

---

This is actually a great idea. They need to hire you for their White Mage "adjustment" team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vae

Sure, for TRUST only. it would accomplish nothing for a real whm. Change weapons far too frequently for it to matter, whms do not melee.

It promotes bad play.

---

The whole point of his idea is so White Mages would not have to melee to gain TP - which is a great source of mp recovery.

So I don't understand why on earth you are accusing the OP of "promoting bad play" because you believe real white mages "do not melee". Your criticism doesn't even make sense - not even from your own perspective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shirai

Uh, they're not completely lies.
A back-line whm who takes the job a tad more serious than performing simple curebot duties uses a lot of weapons for the insane amount of spells we have at our disposal.
I can give you a list of the weapons I alone use and what I use them for right now, if you want.
So unless they give whm a trait enabling them to keep their TP while switching weapons (imagine the sh*tstorm that would cause among the melee jobs), Occult Acumen is completely useless.

Besides, Empyrian pants already give us (close to) free cures, so unless you have an inefficient cure set or use your MP inefficient otherwise whm can last for an insanely long time without support as it is.

---

You are very much correct, I use 5 different weapons regularly when playing WHM, 6 if i count my Yagrush. I also never run out of mp, not even when curing 2pts at once. use the empy legs and /SCH in combination with aurorastorm and chatoyant. There is no need to add more options to regenerate MP, just make sure you have Vile/hi elixirs and you're set.

As a BLM who is making the Aeonic staff purely for the shenanigans of self-sc+mb by taking advantage of OA, I am in support of this idea.

Personally, I'd like the proposed WHM version to apply to all Holy and Healing magic cast, as it just makes more sense to me that way. Doesn't seem like a worthwhile expenditure of devtime if limited exclusively to offensive spells since those are so few and far between... This concept might also add something to the Misery playstyle, by reducing the impact on melee TP generation rate when having to stop swinging to keep party members alive.

Don't see any negatives, TBH. ^^
(PS: I also want the same thing for Blue Magic for BLU so that it's no longer always-bad to cast during combat..)

While this is nice in theory, I agree that we need to swap weapons too often for this to really work for us in a lot of situations. That TP will be lost before it can be used. It might work nicely as a specific enhancement for Misery though, assuming SE reverts all the recent poor changes and leaves Misery as the front line stance of choice. I'd possibly support "divine acumen" in this specific guise, as in this context we wouldn't be swapping weapons anyway.

Absolutely no disrespect to White Mages who prefer to front line, but it's not always the best solution to a problem. Naturally, I want to squeeze every onze I can out of my spells. If I'm not meleeing, for whatever reason, that means weapon switching should be on the table.

Even if a backline WHM doesn't swap weapons and thus could benefit from "divine acumen", we still have to engage to use weaponskills - even ones that work at range like Dagan. In a fast paced fight, this kind of clunky delay is really awkward. BLMs can get away with it more easily than we can.

I think we have a nice alternative option though - the Stored Power concept of our Afflatus stances. Solace already builds power through healing - that could be turned to a better use than Holy potency. It unfortunately also caps in a couple of healing spells - that could be changed so that it builds multiple charges more gradually, or more of them. Misery's stored power is more immediately useful with Cura, but I don't see why something similar couldn't be bolted on top.

Having something MP restoring (or MP conserving, or party defence enhancing - all this helps with MP in the long run) attached to Afflatus would have the same effect as "divine acumen", avoid the TP loss on weapon swap issue, and perhaps give us tools with new concepts rather than just straight up MP recovery weaponskill access; not debating that it's extremely useful, but it's been done!

My suggestion: As I mentioned in the digest thread, I really want to cast Stoneskin/Blink/Aquaveil on allies. Let's not question why - I just think it'd be cool. So what if Solace/Misery both gain a "charge" when they cap power. One charge - one free casting of one of those spells on an ally. When the stoneskin breaks, or the blink/aquaveil activate, I recover 10MP. It'd be even nicer if this kind of Stoneskin would stack with the effect from Afflatus Solace.

Just a thought.