Ternary Flourish : post here if you think it needs to be buffed or removed

Just because the content doesn't exist doesn't mean it's not a good role. The current way they're taking dancer actually gives it no purpose at ALL instead of some purpose.

A job that needs to be on a mob fulltime, with low hp and dual wielding daggers with low attk will NEVER be useful on VW/hnm/hard mobs, sorry :/ Never ever will it become useful on such things, not physically possible.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Remove it and give DNC more supporting abilities or a better way to heal again. Bring back the level 75 DNC playstyle, they were INCREDIBLY useful and wanted back then. Now DNC is a crap job with no purpose, DD is not what DNC is meant to be.

I also 100% disagree with listening to the playerbase, just look at temper. They want RDM to be a melee job when it's clearly NOTHING like that at all, and SE needs to completely ignore melee whiners. They should look at how jobs are played in level90 enviroments by good players to see how the job is used and focus on making the job better at that. Right now DNC is only used to solo, but at 75 it was used as a healer and support DD, it needs to go back to the level 75 playstyle if they want this job to have ANY use at all.

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I really don't understand what you're getting at. For starters how much has dancer "changed" functionally since the 75 cap? We still pretty much do the same things we've always done, but due to all the +crit gear and atma and climactic our damage is just better. I dunno about you, but it was at the 75 cap where I was constantly turned down for things because it was my only job - our desirability for low-man groups for seals/+2 items as a blink tank has gone up - we're still just as unnessecary in the eyes of elitists who want "the best healer" or "the best supporter" now as we were back then - nothing has changed. Other than exp parties there was never a big golden age for dancers when it came to big fights like you are referring to.

Dnc sure isn't a "crap job" its just the abyssea mentality has just furthered the already prevalent way of thinking in FFXI that puts many multi-purpose jobs lower on the desirability scale - in a game with 20 jobs, they can't all be the best but they need a niche, which is what many people have been asking for. Getting rid of Ternary in Lieu of another ability, a support ability that really makes a dancer desirable in dangerous fights, or even more defensive abilities to better bolster our solo ability - *anything* would be better than Ternary just because its an unnessecary damage flourish that's outclassed by abilities we already have.

What you're saying is that you don't want the dev team to listen to the playerbase because of... Temper? I'm pretty sure that that ability was a judgement call based on the devs paper understanding of how the job works, not because of a large outcry for more damage potential. Most of the red mages on the forums have been clamoring for more enfeebling power, with a much smaller portion asking for more of the "jack of all trades" aspect, so that was the dev's call. Also the spell sucks with a 5% activation rate, so there's that but I really have not seen people demanding they made RDM a "melee job". The point is, just like dnc they're a jack-of-all-trades job that wants some aspect of "mastery" and desirability.

As I said earlier of course you're going to get people who have ideas like "make ninja reliant on throwing attacks!" There are whole threads started with trains of thought along the lines of "We have it why arnt we *the best at this now obscure aspect of the job" but the majority of players will almost always want updates based on what would improve what the job really shines at with current content. The devs should be paying more attention to that, and stop thinking that they always know the best direction for the job. Taking the job in a new direction to open up their options is one thing, but it just depends on if it's needed or not. For a support/solo/self-sustaining job, our damage ability is quite good, (hell, look at all the drama on the thief boards) so there is no need to focus any more on the "Damage" aspect - atleast not with *another* flourish III when Climactic blows it away.

For us to be "an effective close range healer" on every mob (VW etc) without becoming overpowered, we'd need something like this : a JA that prevents our melee from feeding TP, but makes our melee very low as a trade (only hit for 1 damage ?), while making us able to survive AoEs (stance à la Fan Dance, but Damage Taken- and resist status ailments ?), and of course lowering all Waltz recast during that stance. And -maybe- a Shell V-ish Samba. Should be enough to replace a WHM main heal on most mobs, though not all mobs obviously.

And that ... will never happen ... so DNC main heal will never happen again (so long colibri PTs)

This may sound too overpowered, but what about a "Shadow Samba" which grants us an utsusemi like shadow when we hit the mob. It would bring us back to the front line and make us desirable. If not that, another option is a Shadow Flourish which converts our FM into shadows. The first ability is more support oriented while the second is more for a tank role. Both would also increase our solo capabilities and possibly allow us to explore alternate SJs since /NIN is a bit redundant on DNC.
The downside to these abilities (to balance them out) is that our damage output would decrease a bit without Haste Samba or Reverse Flourish. However, I could live with that, it would bring something new to the job and allow us to explore new ways to use DNC.

At one point in time I believe people were asking to make dnc a dd job.... but I think SE took that as just mainly dd and having no way to maintain ourselves as well as dd. Dont know why they would assume this but they did. Byrth has a point as much as I hate to admit. As we are currently dnc has no place in the majority of the main events going on. We may be able to deal impressive dmg now but our support role is seriously lacking. The amount we heal for in no way matters with the new nms. The dmg is too fast and large for it to even matter. Like he said we might as well just stay in saber mode. We need a means of reducing the dmg we take through defensive debuffs. Thats the key to our success, along with a way to augment our waltzs cast times and potencies, and maybe even a way to make them aoe.

Remove it...as it stands, I never use climactic flourish. Whenever I'm on dnc, I'm inevitably in a situation where I have to stick to my support stuff, like haste samba, waltzes, steps, w/e to keep myself alive, and I don't even get a chance to think about throwing in a climactic flourish....give us something to help out that would be useful, not another climactic flourish!

Replace it with a Category 3, 2 FM, 30 second cooldown Flourish that resets Waltz cooldowns, imo.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

Replace it with a Category 3, 2 FM, 30 second cooldown Flourish that resets Waltz cooldowns, imo.

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that sounds like it might be a good idea. sort of a compromise to splitting timers.

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Originally Posted by Bubeeky

Remove it...as it stands, I never use climactic flourish. Whenever I'm on dnc, I'm inevitably in a situation where I have to stick to my support stuff, like haste samba, waltzes, steps, w/e to keep myself alive, and I don't even get a chance to think about throwing in a climactic flourish....give us something to help out that would be useful, not another climactic flourish!

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Nearly every situation you're in you're bleeding all over the floor? That can't be right...

maybe he solos a lot? Dnc is a pretty hard sell on anything that can be !!! proced.