Status Breaks and Weaponskills

Yeah, so this time i get to post about Warrior. And this one is going to be a bit of fun.

Something I never understood is why on earth we have the Status Break skills as weapon skills. These shoud be JOB ABILITIES that should make warrior useful as a subjob beyond provoke. Yeah thats right, I said it. And am suggesting it...............

So it goes something like this, I would envision an ability catergory that works on an idea similar to dancers. Breaks should cause status down effects to the enemy. Should be like this................

Status Break:
-Attack Break
-Defense Break
-Evasion Break
-Magic Attack Break
-Magic Evasion Break

Each one should consume TP, like quite a bit, be an actual attack (as in should do damage like some flourishes), maybe even an enhanced damage attack. the TP cost should be high though, and the effect should vary by TP. Then as a real kicker main job warriors at higher levels should get the following..........

-TP Break (Reduce the enemy TP by an amount)
-Full Break (would be the breaks mentioned above all in one)
-Enchantment Break (yeah, dispel. booyeah!)
-Speed Break (Slow effect)

These should cost a lot more (im talking 100% TP, but still effect varied by TP..........) and deal enhanced damage as mentioned above. This kind of a change would allow WARs the option to consider different uses beyond "Swing, get tp, weaponskill." Also, might change how we use the subjob WAR.

Thanks,
~Chuk

PS. Forgot to mention the weaponskill part. Add elemental weaponskills to the great axe that replace the loss of the Break weaponskills. I would make some that do additional effects like Plague or Blind. Maybe a Wind weaponskill that hits 4 times, deals only elemental damage, and Silences the enemy? Throw in ideas people!

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Originally Posted by Chuk

should make warrior useful as a subjob beyond provoke

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I stopped reading here.

And you have nin99?

Oh dear.

You're on my server too?

Glad I've never bumped into you.

I agree. Maybe, we could also throw some support abilities on there that use TP, like some healing abilities and maybe a couple buffs, too.

Wait, that might be overpowered, so maybe we shouldn't let Warriors use heavy armor or weapons. We'll let them use light armor only and have them focus on daggers. However, since they do have the ability to debuff defense and evasion, maybe they should have a lower skill cap. An accuracy boost wouldn't hurt though, since they are losing out on some armor options. Still, if we are giving them daggers, we should probably give them dual wield. Also, if they are lighter armor users, their ability to evade attacks should be improved.

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Originally Posted by Chuk

These should cost a lot more (im talking 100% TP, but still effect varied by TP..........) and deal enhanced damage as mentioned above.

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They have those already. They are called "weapon skills."

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Originally Posted by Chuk

This kind of a change would allow WARs the option to consider different uses beyond "Swing, get tp, weaponskill." Also, might change how we use the subjob WAR.

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That's what Warrior does. If you want a melee class with more support options, take your pick from the dozen classes that do exactly that in slightly different ways.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

I stopped reading here.

And you have nin99?

Oh dear.

You're on my server too?

Glad I've never bumped into you.

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Its quite alright. I know all about double attack(which you can get quite a bit from gear), Berserk(Last resort just got changed to be almost exactly this but with an imediate emnity spike), Warcry(which is good once in what? 5 minutes?) among other things. I am also a WAR99. And yes, i do sub war for NIN, as much as i know DNC, RDM and sometimes DRK (although usually i have someone else on stun duty) all work. Besides, maybe you should talk around, anyone who knows me well enough would say very nice things about me.

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Originally Posted by Mathieu

I agree. Maybe, we could also throw some support abilities on there that use TP, like some healing abilities and maybe a couple buffs, too.

Wait, that might be overpowered, so maybe we shouldn't let Warriors use heavy armor or weapons. We'll let them use light armor only and have them focus on daggers. However, since they do have the ability to debuff defense and evasion, maybe they should have a lower skill cap. An accuracy boost wouldn't hurt though, since they are losing out on some armor options. Still, if we are giving them daggers, we should probably give them dual wield. Also, if they are lighter armor users, their ability to evade attacks should be improved.



They have those already. They are called "weapon skills."



That's what Warrior does. If you want a melee class with more support options, take your pick from the dozen classes that do exactly that in slightly different ways.

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Yes, im aware of dancer. But really, please tell me your using Fullbreak for something other than stagger. Seriously. And its just an idea, try to refine it instead of just saying "Change job". I have access to all those jobs. I play some of those jobs. So the hollow "change job" arguement is moot. Until you have something more constructive to say, i recommend not repeating what others say just because it sounds "funny".

WAR isn't meant to be a job that disables the target, WAR is a pure damage class. Leave the disabling and enfeebling to support DDs that can't dish out as much raw damage as Warriors can. Usually jobs that aren't pure melee are jobs that have abilities which weaken mobs i.e DNC with steps, BLU with various additional effect spells, DRG with Angon, THF with Feint/Aura Steal and the additional effects of Exenterator/Stardiver/Shattersoul. Since WAR is mostly about boosting their own stats for damage(berserk/bloodrage/aggressor etc) their role is mainly dishing damage out. For jobs that don't focus solely on increasing their own damage like the jobs listed above, they have other tools to enhance the party's damage or weaken the defense or evasion of the target for everyone to perform better. Giving WAR the ability to lower defense would encroach upon Angon(DRG), Bligestorm(BLU), Acid Bolts(RNG/THF/DRK), Box Step(DNC), RDM/WHM(Dia) for example.

Uh you guys do know that in the great axe weapon skill list, some of these skills exist right? The skills are already there. Also, merit skill Tomahawk says sup. Really though, would it really hurt the game for some ability overlap to occur. There already are plenty of skills that do most of these effects. Ophannus even listed some of the overlapping effects, so really are other jobs not already stepping on each others toes? Also what is this "pure damage dealer" stuff you are even talking about? Last i checked, a lot of other jobs can deal damage. DRK, DRG, MNK, SAM all say hello. Two handed damage dealers the whole way (except monk, but still a damage dealer).

The point im trying to make is who really uses the current set of break weapon skills when you have better damage dealing options. Thats the concept.

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Originally Posted by Chuk

The point im trying to make is who really uses the current set of break weapon skills when you have better damage dealing options. Thats the concept.

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Noone much. But, they're there for when we really really really need them. (the eva- one is good for some of the REAL end-game content to save needing acc food. Particularty when using embrava, since you get tp so fast it's worth wasting 1 ws damage to help everyone cap acc).

But they don't need fixing.

SE Said the break WS line were going to get an Adjustment at some point, but they never did, Maybe its still planned.

OP - The Suggestion, as is, Is not a terrible concept. But Consuming TP to lay forth a mediocre (Its SE, It'll be mediocre) Debuff on the enemy is something no WAR in the right mind would do. Its wasted on the WAR job. WAR is a DD, Its only purpose in life is to Hit things with other things and make the things it hits with those things die horribly in a pile of vomit and urine.

That is the essence of the job, Its one of the few jobs in this game that isn't broken, There's no need to try and Fix it. Give it new toys, but don't try to redesign the job.

Now, The idea as a whole you came up with isn't too terrible, But a lot of what you asked for are already readily available, and if SE is like "FU no Plague" i doubt they're giving any jobs the above debuffs... as... To name 1 Example each,

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-Attack Break

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Bio.

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-Defense Break

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Dia.

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-Evasion Break

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Feint

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-Magic Attack Break

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Some Weaponskill that Escapes me.

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-Magic Evasion Break

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Death Blossom.

SE's reasoning for not giving RDM plague is that other jobs get that effect already, As the above are available, WAR, of all things, being able to do all of them, Would definitely Over power the job in SE's eyes. Them turning WAR into a Round-about Top DD and Debuffer would just be taking a huge dump on RDM, and RDM is already in the gutter dying... er... Dead.

Again, I appreciate the time you took to write this, and sorry if any of the above, or what I'm about to type, comes off rude... But you seem to have absolutely no grasp or understanding of the WAR job. Saying it needs more uses than provoke as a sub job? DD sub it for Berserk, Warcry, Aggressor, Attack Bonus, and Double Attack amongst other things... not Provoke. As a Main Job, WAR is one of the most desired and powerful DD out there.

Thanks for the Thread, But despite how the previous posters came off, They're all right in their own way. Break WS's are useless for a reason, WAR's job isn't to debuff, Its to DD. Break WS's don't DD, they do mediocre damage and suck. Now, If the Defense/Etc Down effects were 30% Or Stronger? They might just be worth using (like say, Tachi: Ageha) - But as it stands, They're too weak to be considered useful.

All of them. Yes. Even Shield Break. Sushi/Pizza, and worst comes to worse, Madrigal. Shield break is going to cut about 1k~6k(Or more depending where!) Damage a WAR could have done if he had used Ukko's Fury or Upheaval, And its Debuff, assuming you're not flat resisted,which by the way is more likely than not, Isn't go to last long enough to make a meaningful impact.

Now... If they were to make the Debuff accuracy very high, and as above, Raise the potency significantly, They could have some situational use, But very unlikely. the Break WS's were designed for an Era in FFXI that is long since past, and will likely never come back. Drastic changes in the power of WAR and the game overall made those types of Debuffs phase out in terms of DD Situations.

I'm going to start talking in circles at this point, So i'll end here. - Don't let it get your hopes down, Back to the drawing board, never give up~